Vulnerability vs. Authenticity: What’s the Difference?

Being “real” is popular. Being truly known is harder, and sometimes it feels risky for a reason. We sit down for a candid, faith-filled conversation about authenticity vs vulnerability, why they are not the same thing, and how we can tell when we are sharing from obedience instead of insecurity. Along the way, we also share some life updates, including a sweet and hilarious moment when friends found out about a new baby on the way.

We unpack a simple but challenging idea: authenticity is living congruent with who we are in Christ, while vulnerability is choosing to be seen when rejection or misunderstanding is possible. We talk about how culture often celebrates “say whatever you feel,” but Scripture calls us to discernment, self-control, and sanctification. We also get practical about oversharing, the “vulnerability hangover,” and how to tell the difference between sharing a healed scar versus bleeding from an open wound. If you have ever curated your honesty to keep control, avoid disappointment, or win approval, this will hit close to home.

From a therapist lens, we discuss self-disclosure, shame, and what it looks like to build safe relationships where trust is earned over time. We share a real story of feeling prompted to pray with a stranger, arguing with the Holy Spirit, and then stepping into obedience anyway. Finally, we answer the “ground zero” question: where do you start if you have never practised vulnerability? Our answer begins with prayer and honest worship, because God is safe and He already knows.

If this encouraged you, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more women can find the Table of Grace. What part of vulnerability feels hardest for you right now?

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Transcript

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Welcome Back To The Table

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to the Table of Grace podcast, where every woman has a seat, every story matters, and Jesus is always at the center. We're here to create space for real conversations and faith-filled stories that help you grow in your walk with Jesus. So grab your favorite cup of coffee and pull up a chair because at his table, there's always a seat for you.

Tessah 0:29

Hey guys, this is Cecil Upkey, and I'm here, thankfully, back in studio with my co-host Corney Newberry.

Courtney 0:36

Hello, hello. I'm back. I'm back. I promise I'm gonna be okay.

Tessah 0:41

We are back in recording another episode. I'm thankful I don't have to do this alone today. It was a little sad last week. I felt like I was just talking to the mic by myself, which I'm usually good at, but I I was like, oh, I I missed it.

Courtney 0:54

I missed it. And it it really is me. This is not a pod person, even though my voice It's not your AI. You can understand why I wasn't here last week.

Tessah 1:02

Yeah. She's still got a little bit of that. Um I feel like I call it the it's like we live in Arkansas, and like when people start cutting like their rice and their corn and their beans, and it's harvest time and all that.

Courtney 1:14

Oh, and I'm allergic to everything outside.

Tessah 1:16

Yeah. You're allergic to the outside.

Courtney 1:18

Pretty much, yeah. So like when I was a kid, they said um they told my mom, you know, like they did like the allergy test or whatever. Yeah. And they said, do not let her ever mow the grass. Oh god. Hate that. What a problem. I know, right? And you can never have a real Christmas tree. Like, I think they tested me for like 200 things, and like I popped on like 80% of them.

Tessah 1:39

Oh wow. Yeah, that's crazy.

Courtney 1:41

Yeah.

Tessah 1:42

You need been like on permanent zeratic or something.

Courtney 1:45

Yeah.

Tessah 1:46

Something like that.

Courtney 1:47

Yeah. But then the ADHD, and I don't remember which ones it was.

Tessah 1:51

Yeah. Yeah. That's hard. It's hard to knock alive. Um, well, I thought we could jump

A Pregnancy Surprise And A Prayer

Tessah 1:56

into some table talk. I have some fun news to share. I forget that Courtney's not on Facebook, so you probably didn't see this post. But um, I'm having another baby, which Courtney already knew this.

Courtney 2:05

Yeah, I got I got got when we were in in South Carolina. Where'd we go? North Carolina. That's it. I'm like the wrong one. It's one of the Carolinas. One of the Carolinas.

Tessah 2:15

Um, it was actually really funny. Um, I think we mentioned this at the beginning of the season, but we all went on a trip this summer. It was us and two other friends, and one of the friends I had told already, and then had planned to tell Courtney and our other friend at like sometime during the trip. We didn't really know when. And so my other friend, she's like, Oh, let me do a prayer, and then like thank God for like the baby that you're having, or something like that. Yep and it was so funny because I was like recording while we were praying, which felt like wrong, but it was funny. Um, and uh Courtney and our other friend, uh the friend that was praying said, like, and thank you so much for like Tessa and like the baby in her belly, and like I wish I could show you because it was the funniest creation.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

I don't care, post it. Sad uh I was like what just happened.

Tessah 3:05

I might just post it on stories and make people feel really confused if they haven't listened to this episode, but it was one of the best reactions. It was so funny. And it was also in this like the loudest restaurant. Courtney, I don't know if you know this, but she has like one ear that doesn't work.

Courtney 3:19

I mean it works. Uh it just doesn't work well. I have uh I have a hearing disability, right? And I wear a hearing aid in my lips.

Tessah 3:25

And I don't think the friend that was praying was talking into your good ear.

Courtney 3:28

Absolutely not. Well, and that's the thing about people who know who have one know that like when you wear a hearing device, like it doesn't give you it doesn't increase the volume of the voice and then turn down the background noise. It gives you everything equally as loud in your ear. So I get overstimulated a lot.

Tessah 3:45

Uh yeah, that would be me.

Courtney 3:47

Yes, yes. And so um You almost want the opposite of that.

Tessah 3:50

Can I mute both ears actually? Yeah. The noise cancellation. Yeah. I feel that. Um, but anyways, that was a really fun thing. And so yeah, we have a lot of fun, a fun year ahead. Uh still podcasting, still gonna try to record everything through the spring and all the things. So uh we'll make it work, we'll figure it out, like we always do.

Authenticity And Vulnerability Defined

Tessah 4:11

Yeah. Um, but today we're gonna hit on um and dive deeper into our topic of vulnerability. But today we're gonna hit more directly on vulnerability versus authenticity, how they're similar, how they're maybe how they differ. Um, and if you listened to last week's episode, you heard me talk about how authenticity is being truthful about who you are, while vulnerability is more about allowing yourself to be known when something is actually at stake. Like it's a lot risky than being even authentic. Whereas authentic authenticity can be risky too.

Courtney 4:43

You know, and like I don't think that I don't register this in my brain, like I do this, but I think that I will call my Corny, don't be a hypocrite. Like I say things like that to myself, like um, be who you are, and the rest just has to kind of fall into place. But it is authenticity, yeah. And I think that you guys listening probably notice when you might be incongruent with yourselves based on a situation or uh maybe some stress that you're in, or pressure, and you know how you feel and how you want to handle the situation because of what your values are and who you belong to, but you feel that that external pressure, or maybe it's just not the time.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Right.

Courtney 5:30

Maybe that the Lord has something for you to say later when somebody's gonna be more likely to hear it than in that moment, you know. Some of it is uh discerning when when to let that that go and then when to pull it back. And I think that that puts us kind of in a struggle sometimes with authenticity, at least it does me.

Tessah 5:48

For sure. I think too, like I loved how you said that because I think we have to filter out vulnerability and authenticity through the Holy Spirit. If we are, you know, if we are following Jesus and we are Christians and we believe the Bible to be true, we believe that the Holy Spirit and God ultimately has our good in mind and how he tells us to be slow to speak, quick to hear, you know, slow to anger, and like he tells us these things and and gives us this instruction through his word and also through the Holy Spirit. I think we have to filter these things out because we talked a little bit about this before, but there's a huge difference in what culture says is authenticity and vulnerability versus what God says it is, and we have to have if we're wanting to live according to his word and be obedient to that, we have to live in a way that also honors him. And sometimes, like I think, and I I don't know, maybe Archie talks about this a lot. Our church at Central Baptist, he says this a lot, like you know, sometimes we can get so stuck in that well I I'm just this way, or like I'm just this way, and that's I am who I am. I am who I am, right?

Courtney 6:53

And this is what I say that I actually said that today. I was complaining about being hot, but I said that today.

Tessah 6:59

But I think there is this like really and I don't even know if it's like even a fine line. I think there's some, you know, way that we have to as Christians say, okay, there are I I'm maybe wired this way, but like God's calling me to go deeper with him and be better and like we're and we're all wired away, and we're all wired to sin.

Courtney 7:22

And yeah, I think that we're all bent to sins. I think that each of us have probably something in a in a realm that we really struggle with. And um, yes, this may be who I am.

SPEAKER_06 7:34

Right.

Courtney 7:34

There there comes a place where you have to have more than awareness, yeah. And you have to be willing to let God sanctify you in the brokenness and in the struggle. So, yes, God made you the way that you are, right? But that that doesn't mean that he's not done working with you.

Tessah 7:51

Right. That doesn't mean that who you are now is the best version of you, exactly. Like I yeah, that's what I was trying to say, but the word vomit kept vomiting. Um sometimes uh over yapp.

Courtney 8:02

Well, just because we're aware of a flaw that we have or a struggle that we have, it doesn't give us a hall pass from being more like him.

Tessah 8:12

Yeah, for sure. I totally agree with that. And I think that's the opposite, like that's the exact opposite of what Cultural says. It's like, well, if you feel this way, then you're right. Or if you if you feel like this is who you are, you should walk in that, you know, because sometimes who I am is actually really, really simple.

Courtney 8:28

I can't tell you how many times I have felt I was right and I could not have been more wrong.

Tessah 8:33

Yeah.

Courtney 8:34

And my feelings will lie to me. Yeah, because they're gonna be filtered through my insecurities and my need for control.

Tessah 8:41

And your history and like things that happen, yeah.

Courtney 8:44

Yeah, and none of the things of the fruits of the spirit if I if I'm if I'm being honest.

Tessah 8:51

Yeah, oh for sure. And I think that's that's where we get the flip side of that is like what God says and like what you mentioned, having the fruit fruits of the spirit, having patience and kindness and self-control and being able to um and we can only do those things with him. You know, like we can't I can try to do some things in my power, but that's only gonna last me till about Tuesday at lunch. Like right now.

Courtney 9:14

If if I'm doing something because God has fueled me to do it, then it's authentic. If I am doing something because I think that I'm supposed to, yeah and it's to make me feel good and or it's pleasing to me, or I'm the center of it, then that's not that's that's that's sin.

Tessah 9:30

Right, yeah. Yeah. I think you have to ask kind of like what's your motivator? Um, so going into that, kind of asking from a therapist perspective for Courtney. Dun dun dun dun dun dun. Everyone's scared now.

Courtney 9:42

Don't be, don't be. Therapists go to therapy. It's a good thing.

Tessah 9:45

Um what would you say is really like the difference between authenticity and actually being vulnerable?

Jesus As The Model Of Risk

Courtney 9:54

Okay, so I did some like a little deep dive with this because I I really like words.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Yeah.

Courtney 10:00

And I like to organize thoughts in my brain because it makes me feel like I understand things. Um, and so like I think that vulnerability is this willingness to be seen, broken, who you are, um, without even if you know you're gonna get rejected. So like I think about like the most perfect example of vulnerability that has ever existed is when Jesus hung on that cross.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

Yep.

Courtney 10:28

Because he knew that he was gonna be rejected.

SPEAKER_06 10:31

Yep.

Courtney 10:32

It wasn't just a risk, it was gonna happen. Like his death was rejection. Yeah, and he still chose to do it anyway. So like I think that when we need to measure what vulnerability looks like, it's that exposure, knowing that people could potentially tear you down or could use it against you and and choosing to do it in the will of God.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

Yes, yeah.

Courtney 10:55

Because we need to be vulnerable when we need to be vulnerable for his purpose and his will, not because we're hoping it changes someone's mind about something.

Tessah 11:03

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Because I think we can I know I have. I don't know if y'all have ever been, it's like a late night, you're hanging out with friends, or like you're at some event and you just met this person and you start oversharing and then you go to bed and you're like, what did I just say?

Courtney 11:18

I'm an awful oversharing. I've I'm much better as I've gotten older and medicated for my ADHD. So like all my ADHD girlies out there who struggle with impulse control. I know, I know, I know, I get it. I know how that just really sits on you afterwards, and you have like, oh you have like oversharing. Well, it's like a vulnerability hangover.

Tessah 11:41

Like, did I just say that? Did I just say that out loud? Yeah, yes. And and trying to remember even who you said it to.

Courtney 11:47

Yes, or like sometimes people will tell me things that I've said to them over the years, and I'm like, oh my Lanta. Oh no, and you're still my friend. Yes. I'm so sorry. I shot you so straight on that.

Tessah 11:59

Um But I think at the same time, like God can also use all that for good. Absolutely, absolutely. Um, but I also think we talked about this too, is like when you like being from a like sharing from a place, like a a healed scar versus an open wound, like that's also like where you have to use that discernment and that like Holy Spirit discernment. Like, okay, God, I really feel you call me to share this with this person or like this person's experiencing this. I've walked through it. I feel really called to talk to them about this. Absolutely. And is it gonna be vulnerable? Absolutely. It might be even hard to share. Like, some an example of this that I've even walked through is um I think we talked about the podcast before too, but like we shared our testimonies in our life group, and it was such our life group honestly is such a safe space. I feel like we have just such a good crew of people there. Um, but it was so such a good practice to like share your testimony. Yeah, and I don't know, I'm just one of those people I don't cry often, but like for some reason, and I could probably share my testimony for like a crowd of so many people. Same, yeah. Get me in a small room, I'm like gonna break down.

Courtney 13:03

You know, like they know you, right? It's a lot easier to share things with people you may never see again because the risk of exposure and rejection doesn't feel as big because you're not gonna know it.

Tessah 13:15

Right, yeah, that's so true. And so, like, I think that was a huge uh like step of obedience for me to just like pract like almost practice sharing, you know, and like being like, okay, like this is my story, like this is how God has brought me through this, like this is how he's redeemed these things. Um, and it's like sharing your testimony is honestly a great practice of like combining, I feel like authenticity and vulnerability um in obedience to Christ. And honestly in a way that makes sense because some people, I mean, I mean, even parts of my story, I would probably share it, I would only probably share it with a specific audience, you know. Like there are just certain things where I'm like, okay, well, like that information doesn't apply to here, or like this doesn't make sense for me to share deeper here, and so like you have to be discerning in that. Um, and I think that's that's where it can be hard to is to walk

Oversharing, Social Media, And Safe People

Tessah 14:06

through.

Courtney 14:06

Well, and and and I think about like self-disclosure. So, like a lot of times, like in therapy, self-disclosure is something that they work with you on grad school, like everybody kind of is in a different camp of do I self-disclose to this client or not?

Tessah 14:18

Define what that is.

Courtney 14:19

Okay, so self-disclosure is when a therapist in a session shares something about themselves. Okay, and technically most people are like you shouldn't self-disclose in a session because then it becomes about you and not about the client.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

Yeah.

Courtney 14:36

However, this is kind of the camp that I come from. I think that so many people live in a world of shame that when they know if you have a good relationship with your client, yeah, and if they know that somebody else has struggled with this too, then it tears down the shame and it can open up the doors for the conversation where healing can begin.

SPEAKER_04 14:57

Yeah.

Courtney 14:58

You know, and so I think that that's that self-disclosure is obviously something we're that we're careful with. Um, but you know, like I grew up not having a good relationship with my dad. And um I'm so thankful now that like I do, he found the Lord and like God has totally healed all of those things. But I understand when I'm working with someone and they have a dad wound because I can see it because God's healed it in me.

SPEAKER_04 15:26

Right.

Courtney 15:26

And I do not air out all of the dirty laundry, but I may say, hey, I know what it feels like to not feel important. I know what it feels like to feel like you need to try to figure out how to measure up.

SPEAKER_05 15:39

Yeah.

Courtney 15:39

And it doesn't stay that way. And you know, this this is happening because of something someone else is struggling with, not because you're not lovable or you're not important. Um, I think that self-disclosure can be a really good thing if it's done in an appropriate way and it needs to be to benefit who you're speaking to, not about if you're talking about yourself or being vulnerable to make you feel good or to make someone's opinion about something or someone else shift, you're doing it for the wrong reason.

Tessah 16:08

Yeah, totally agree.

Courtney 16:09

If you are being vulnerable with someone because you were sharing something that they might can't see for themselves, almost like you're standing in a gap for them. Um, I think that there is a space for minimal self-disclosure.

Tessah 16:21

Yeah, for sure.

Courtney 16:22

I do.

Tessah 16:22

For sure. I think I totally agree with that. And I think sometimes we I think what's hard too is sometimes figuring like also not even on like our like looking at ourselves, but like with other people. Because I think some people can be so boldly authentic and then it's curated though. Right. But they're also not but they're not vulnerable at all. Like they're very service level. Um, and I think some a lot of that mostly is probably from social media. So I'll say it. Yeah, social media. I'll say it.

Courtney 16:50

I'll talk to the the social media strategist, content creator. Some of that is it is so true.

Tessah 16:56

No, I I listen, I totally agree with it. Um I'm close enough to it, I can admit that. Um I think also too, it's like that comes from insecurity or like not wanting to be known or like not allowing yourself to be known deeply. Like that was something I struggled with, I know for a very long time. It's just like not not that I didn't have the space to be vulnerable, because like if you know my mother, she's very much like an open book. Like all the you know, front to cover. Yeah, like she's just like what do you want to do? Right, yeah. What do you want to know? I'll tell you anything. If you ever have if you have a question about anything, ask me. I was just not wired that way. I'm just such more of a introspective person, maybe that's a good way to describe me. Um, or like very much, I have my own, I have a very, very yappy inner monologue. You know, like people who say they don't have inner monologue, I worry about them. Cause I'm like, who do you talk to during the day? I gotta talk to the Lord and myself. Yeah. Um that's about it. And Jackson. And we yeah, you know, toddlers is it's just babbling. Um, but I think like we can like knowing my struggle with vulnerability, like how much God has used that, I'm super excited that we're even talking about it this season because I feel like he's wanting to heal even more of that in me as like we're processing and walking through it too.

Courtney 18:07

Because um Well there's a piece of it in motherhood.

Tessah 18:10

Oh gosh, yeah.

Courtney 18:11

Which is a whole other episode.

Tessah 18:12

Yeah, yeah. That's in our next sec sec segments. Yeah, it's coming. It's coming.

Courtney 18:17

But the vulnerability piece in motherhood is so crucial.

Tessah 18:22

Oh my gosh, yeah. Wow. That I feel like God has done some crazy things in my life through that for sure. Like I balled my eyes out two nights ago. And I come in the or I like put jacks to sleep, but I'm like, he's getting so big. You know, he's 20 months, but he wears like three tea cloves. It's all like, Why are you so big? You know, like just ball my eyes out. But like it's so like it's like motherhood is like this biggest like sanctification process ever. If you allow it to be, you know, like you don't you can resist.

Courtney 18:51

Merit is a walking mirror of me. Absolutely.

Tessah 18:56

I'm not really ready for Jackson to start stringing sentences too.

Courtney 18:58

Wait until he starts talking.

Tessah 18:59

I'm worried. Um, but we'll dive into that in another episode because I can talk about it all day.

Courtney 19:03

Um I didn't say what I thought authenticity was though. Okay, yes. So I did like vulnerability.

SPEAKER_06 19:07

Yes.

Courtney 19:08

Um, I think that authenticity is it's genuine and you're congruent with who you are, and you don't change yourself based on where you are around. But I think that you can be authentic without being vulnerable.

Tessah 19:24

Oh yeah, for sure.

Courtney 19:25

And um, you know, people may not love the the Courtney's married to a farmer and her dad's a farmer and she hates being outside, you know. But I really, I really do like authentically hate being outside.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

Yeah.

Courtney 19:42

But I'm not at a risk of exposure or rejection in that. I just unless you don't invite me to the patio, you know. Right.

Tessah 19:49

And it's mostly hot too. I feel like it's mostly really hot weather, which we have primarily in Arkansas.

Courtney 19:55

Yes, it makes me cry.

Tessah 19:56

It's like 80% of the year.

Courtney 19:58

Right, right. And so I think that we can also can be authentically loving and caring and open and safe for other people without being vulnerable. Um uh about a year ago I was just kind of walking through some things and I had this like God realization in my face of I'm really good at caring for other people, but I don't let other people care for me.

Tessah 20:26

Yeah, I feel like that's a huge one that so many women struggle with.

Courtney 20:29

Especially if you work in the helping profession.

unknown 20:31

Oh gosh.

Tessah 20:32

Yeah, of any kind. Well, and even like like what you mentioned, like motherhood, like women are um I would even program's not even the maybe not even the word, but God did design us in this like more nurturing um, just like I guess Yeah, but sometimes I think we nurture because we don't want to be uncomfortable if someone else is uncomfortable. Yes, that could also be so true.

Courtney 20:55

Yeah, like let me mitigate my uncomfortability by trying to make everybody else more comfortable.

Tessah 21:01

Yeah, yeah, that's so true.

Courtney 21:02

And I think And then we're the opposite of vulnerable at that point. Yeah, we might still be authentic. Yeah, I don't want you to be sad.

Tessah 21:09

Mm-hmm. Right. I think that's so true, and I think so many women definitely struggle with that because most women, not everybody's a mom, but most women are whether you're in your career and you're taking care of these things or you're doing this and you're constantly serving and pouring out, it's easy. It almost feels like feels like sometimes you are protecting yourself almost um by not allowing people in or not like, well, uh I'm okay. Like I can I can handle this, or like and that's just honestly I've been there, I'm sure I'll be there again, and the Lord will have to humble me again. Um, but it's like it's the road is the path to burnout, it's the path to crashing out. I mean it's is the path to you.

Courtney 21:54

If somebody doesn't take care of you and you expected them to, you have s tried To avoid or control feeling disappointed and let down.

Tessah 22:03

Yeah.

Courtney 22:03

So here we are, usurping vulnerability again.

Tessah 22:06

Yep. Yep. And I think, well, actually, I have a a whole breakdown of season three. But um we have one that's gonna be on marriage. It's got a roadmap relationships. I do have a roadmap. Y'all should be proud of me. I usually don't. Um, but like I'd like I feel like we're gonna dive deep into that during like the marriage relationship part because I think that's so such a big thing. Um how would you say like diving into these questions? How can we tell a difference between discernment saying like this person isn't safe and fear saying don't let anyone get close enough to hurt you?

Courtney 22:41

Sure. So I think that we also have to look at the experience, right? So

Discernment Or Fear Protecting You

Courtney 22:47

if I am labeling someone as unsafe before I know them, before I've prayed about it, before I've sought wise counsel, um, or if I'm labeling someone unsafe who positionally isn't listed, if I label Nick as unsafe, but he's my husband, that that's incongruent.

unknown 23:08

Right.

Courtney 23:08

You know what I mean? And so that that puts me in a position where I'm protecting me because I want to protect me, yeah, not because I'm living out what the Lord has asked me to do.

SPEAKER_05 23:20

Yeah, for sure.

Courtney 23:21

Um I think that also there are people who we see as unsafe because we watch how they interact with other people, you know. So like one of the things like I say probably at least four or five times a week, like, hey, how your friends treat other people or talk about other people when they're not around, is probably similar to how they do when you're not around.

SPEAKER_05 23:46

Yep, so true.

Courtney 23:47

And I think that we all know that on some level, and we want to think that we're the exception.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

Yeah.

Courtney 23:52

You know? Right. Um, and I'm not saying that like friends don't mess up and come back and say, hey, I was really unkind or that wasn't my best day, and I'm really sorry. I hope you forgive me. That's vulnerability. Um but I think that we forget that people will always teach us who they are. Oh, we just have to be willing to see it.

Tessah 24:12

Give them a long enough. Like, I always tell uh Courtney knows my sister, but um I always say just like give them long enough. Like, I think actually my dad says this a lot. He would always tell us, like, growing up, like, especially with boyfriends, like, give them long enough, they're gonna show you who they are. Like, just give you have to give them long enough.

Courtney 24:29

Yeah, anybody can be great for four or five months. Right, yeah, anybody can put it on, especially like in limited space.

Tessah 24:34

Oh, for sure, yeah. And so, like, I think I and I honestly have applied that in a way, and I've had to because I can almost be I don't even know if too discerning might not even be the word, it's part of that, but sometimes I can be so like critical of like around me, and not even like critical of like judging of like oh they're not doing that right. It's almost so like in a as a protective form of like I think for me I've had to learn that um to put aside some of my trust issues. Well you have trust issues, yeah, you didn't know. Um give people a chance, um, and even uh and I that's vulnerability to me, like is to ease is to put down walls, not maybe exactly give people access to me in that way, because I mean even recently been burned by that. It's like you have like I feel like it's almost like working a muscle of like, okay, I can open myself up and be who I am um and love people. I'm like such a big like I mean Courtney knows this about me, but I'm I'm just one of those people like I'm like a golden retriever loyal. Like I will go to war.

Courtney 25:42

Like if someone says I love you, I love you from the top of your head to the soles of your feet.

Tessah 25:46

Right. I'm like, I will where's the pitchfork? Whose house are we setting on fire? Not really for illegal purposes, but like metaphorically. Um, but I'm like, I'm ready to go. And so like when um like those situations come up and that person isn't who I thought they were, or like, yeah, oh, I heard this story completely wrong, or I'm on the wrong side of this, you know. I didn't I didn't give myself time to see that yeah, I didn't give myself time to see both sides of a story or something like that. I have to like God has taught me so much in this past year to like step back, be slow to speak, quick to listen, observant and like understanding, um, and to really ask questions. And I feel like that's something he's taught me so much of um in my journey to being being vulnerable and like trusting people, and like um, but I think that's it can be such a hard journey for sure. Um and Courtney, I'd love for you to kind of us talk about this, but how do we know when someone has earned access to the more vulnerable parts of our story? And what does that usually look like? Because I think that's something I'm even learning. Safe. Um, and I know I know the safe people in my life, right? Like we you know those people um that are safe that you can call and or be like, hey, pray for me, or hey, I really need to, I really just need to hash this out. Like I I'm struggling with this, or I need to really talk this through. Like, I'm very blessed to have Courtney's one of those people for me. Um like to have one of like having friends in your corner, and can I be so honest? I've only had, I mean, maybe I'm trying to think, maybe like two real outside of family event, of course, but like two really solid friends my whole life until adulthood that I could be vulnerable like that one.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah, absolutely.

Tessah 27:33

Um, and so like I think a lot of times we think, oh well, we need all these people, and like we if we're if we're gonna be populars, I mean not a word, but we tend to maybe lean towards that on social media or whatever. We want to be liked or we want to be feel like people know us or accept it or accept us, then we need to share all these parts about us or like give access to all these people or like be super a big overshare and do all this stuff, and I think that can just be super unwise. Um, but also you're you're honestly not sharing from a place of oh, I want a deep relationship with you and like I'm trusting you with this, and I hope that you can trust me, it's more so of like, oh, I really want you to like me, so I'm gonna expose these parts of me that I think will help us connect better so you like me more. Does that make sense?

Courtney 28:17

Well, and and I think that if we look at the very thing that you said, so if I am being vulnerable so you'll like me, then I might be doing it for the wrong reasons. Yeah.

Obedience In A Risky Prayer Moment

Courtney 28:30

If I am being vulnerable because I feel called by the Lord, um you remember when we were in South Carolina and we were on our way back with um the the Uber driver.

Tessah 28:41

Oh my gosh.

Courtney 28:42

And I like got in an argument with the Holy Spirit. Yes. And so we were on our we were on our way back from dinner? Yeah. Yeah. And our Uber driver, um, because I am who I am, and uh I had avoided being in the front seat the whole trip. It was totally my turn to be it was God ordained. And so I get in the front seat and um I'm just chatting with him because that's who I am. And we're talking about like Arkansas, and he was like from Africa, like West Africa.

SPEAKER_06 29:15

Yeah.

Courtney 29:15

South Africa? No, no, West Africa. Something like that. Something like that. Yeah. Um very thick, strong accent, you know. Um, talked about like how he had been like stranded over there during COVID and he'd lost a business. You know, when you're a therapist, people tell you all their hard things easily. And we're pulling into the parking lot at the hotel, and um, I just feel like this really strong, like you need to pray with him. And I was pretty sure he wasn't a Christian, um, and uh definitely um Arabic descent. And I told the Lord, I'm not doing that. And you know, like I didn't, I didn't there was a huge vulnerability in that. AM a woman. Um, I didn't notice the the Islamic prayer beads in the rearview mirror totally.

Tessah 30:08

One of our friends noticed it.

Courtney 30:10

Yeah, yeah. Like while she was taking pictures and trying to figure out what it was, you know. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just you know, up front chatting and and I asked him, I was like, hey, would it be okay if we prayed with you? And um he said he said yes. Yeah, and he led us. Um, and so we prayed with him. And um after I had told the Lord I wasn't doing it, and you know, like you just get that we've talked about like the fish hook, like I said, do it. Yeah, and so the vulnerability piece was totally there, yeah. And I was being authentic, and then we get out, and um when I started praying, he goes, uh-oh, because I said dear God, he goes, uh-oh. And I mean, I don't know. That that is what it is, and it was a moment that kind of stepped out and could have been kind of unsafe, right? But I was being obedient, and so I knew I needed to be vulnerable then. Yeah, and he could all he could do is tell me no, right? And I'm gonna pray silently then. Yeah, you can't tell me what I can say in my head about you. Um and really like we just prayed over that he would um that he would he would be feel successful and to have his feet under him because he had lost a lot um during COVID. And he was so nice. He was so nice, so nice. He was really nice. And that could have gone a totally different direction, but because it was the Lord leading it. And I think that we have to do that with vulnerability in our other friendships or our relationships or at work. And I think that the first filter has to be am I doing this because of me, and I want them to think or feel a certain way about me, or I'm trying to influence something, or am I doing this because God said to.

When Self Protection Creates Loneliness

Tessah 31:50

Yeah, so good. No, I totally I think that's nail on the what is that? Nail on the head? I don't even know if I'm not gonna. That's a pregnancy brain thing. Yeah, I uh you know, I'm glitching. Um, you know, it it it is what it is. Um, but yeah, that that's so good. And I love that story too, because it was such a cool God moment. We had really cool God moments in North Carolina. It was just like a neat experience. So we hope we're trying to plant girls' strips from now on. We're like, where are we going next? We don't know. Um so one of two more questions left um to hit on. What when we kind of off the conversation we're talking about, at what point does self-protection stop protecting us and start preventing intimacy, do you think?

Courtney 32:39

Oh man, I think that when self-protect okay, read it to me again, because I want to get it right or say it right.

Tessah 32:46

What point does self-protection stop actually protecting us and instead start preventing intimacy?

Courtney 32:53

So isolating us. Yeah. Well, and I think that if we aren't, how do you feel, how do you feel the love of God if you don't let yourself? How do you feel the love of your spouse if you don't let yourself? Right. If we are curating and managing people's thoughts and feelings about us, and we are living from a place of I'm going to respond based on how I think they're going to perceive me.

SPEAKER_06 33:20

Right.

Courtney 33:20

A, that's exhausting, and nobody can manage that long term. And you will be lonely. You will be lonely. And God did not create us to be alone.

SPEAKER_06 33:34

Right.

Courtney 33:34

We wouldn't talk if we weren't created to be alone.

SPEAKER_06 33:39

Right.

Courtney 33:39

We wouldn't have, you know, need for connection. And you know, and anyone who's ever like heard me like talk like it's a I want to be seen, I want to be known, I want to be understood.

SPEAKER_05 33:49

Yeah.

Courtney 33:49

Um that's innate. That's innate. And I think that that never goes away. I think that we tell ourselves that is so unsafe that I don't want that anymore.

SPEAKER_06 34:03

Yeah.

Courtney 34:04

But are you happy? Are you living out God's will? Are you satisfied in not wanting to be seen, known, and heard?

Tessah 34:12

Yeah. And I think that's uh a tactic of the enemy.

Courtney 34:16

Absolutely.

Tessah 34:17

Uh in our lives. And because the opposite of that is that God fully knows and loves you, you know, fully, absolutely. Like He knows things that you don't even know about yourself. You know, like and He loves versions of you that you haven't even met yet. You know, like He's He's outside of space and time, he's outside of the confinements of humanity that we have, and that's especially if you are in a season where you do feel where you're not seen and known, and that you can't feel like you can't feel like you can be authentic, you can't be vulnerable because you don't have a space to do that, you don't have people to do that with, whether it's just your situation, it's your season, it's your history, it's um whatever that looks like. I think what's can be so healing and so hopeful is to know that the God of the universe, the God that created you, didn't just create you and send you off to you know, no, he's there with us, he's with us. Yeah, he's with us, he wants a deeper relationship with us. Um, and that's starts with us giving him access to us.

Courtney 35:18

There's a surrender and vulnerability.

Tessah 35:20

Yeah, yeah, and and to starting that relationship with him through Jesus. And um that's where I know I've found comfort if I'm ever in a season where the devil has tried to isolate me or make me feel like nobody like nobody really knows you, or like nobody really understands you, or like nobody, like you're too ambitious, or you're oh hit my mic, you're too all of all the things and like just lies that the enemies told me over and over again. And like it's so refreshing to know I can go, no, that's wrong. Like, I have a father that loves me and a God that loves me that I can run to that fully knows me, and I can actually just talk to him about these things, yeah.

Courtney 36:00

And um like I I have been in meetings and had to go to the bathroom and be like, What are you doing? Yeah, like I'm I'm like unfiltered praying like David running from Saul. Yeah, what what is happening here?

Tessah 36:15

Like have you sent my enemies against me?

Courtney 36:17

Yeah, like are why are you not flanking in here? Like, where where is this? You know, am I the problem? Am I not allowing you? And am I leading so much with my insecurity that I have pushed your presence out of the room? Yeah, and usually that's the case.

Tessah 36:33

Yeah. I think uh a great example of especially just looking at where your relationship is with the Lord is sometimes when he feels so distant, it's not because he's moved, it's because we've moved. Oh man, yeah. And that can sometimes be a very hard pill to swallow because we're like, where are you, Lord? And God's like, Where have you been? Because I have not you haven't been wanting to meet with me. Like you haven't been wanting to sit with me.

unknown 36:58

Yep.

Tessah 36:59

Um, and so I can all like this past week I've I've tell Courtney how to sit kid, it's just been terrible. I've not got to sit in my quiet time like I usually do, and I can tell the difference in my attitude. My husband probably can too.

Courtney 37:09

Give me three days, and you can tell I've not been with the Lord. Yeah. Really, really, really two and a half.

Tessah 37:15

And it hurts like I know when I do, like I can I sense it when it starts happening. I'm like, you need to go somewhere. Yeah. Put yourself in a corner with your Bible and sit. You know, like you want to put I want to put myself a timeout.

Courtney 37:28

Um sometimes I need a timeout.

Tessah 37:30

Yeah, I need to like give me a I need a 24 hour timeout. Um, but I uh I think it yeah, that knowing that the Lord has loves us where we're at and is calling us deeper with him is so reassuring.

Start With Prayer And Honest Worship

Tessah 37:46

Um finishing off this episode, finishing it with the last question. For the woman who kind of is realizing maybe through this episode that I feel like I am authentic, um, or maybe, maybe you are, maybe you're not, but you don't think that you're actually vulnerable with anyone, or vulnerability is like a a world that you have never explored for some reason? Um, where does she start? Like, where does someone start if they're like, Okay, I really want, or I really feel God calling me to be vulnerable. I really feel God calling me to share my testimony or my story with a coworker or um to share even share the gospel with somebody. Like God's vulnerable um to share your faith with someone. Um what where does that person start maybe if they're like on ground zero of like I don't know where to go?

Courtney 38:34

Practice it in prayer.

Tessah 38:36

Yeah, it's good.

Courtney 38:38

I mean, there is no better place to rehearse out vulnerability than with God the Father. And if we can't do that, then you're probably not ready to have those horizontal conversations too.

Tessah 38:57

So good.

Courtney 38:58

Because he's so safe.

Tessah 39:00

Yeah.

Courtney 39:01

He's so safe. And I think that our struggle or our hang-up of needing to please and to be perfect for him keeps us from bringing it to his feet.

SPEAKER_04 39:15

Yep.

Courtney 39:15

Because we think we have to be a certain way, or maybe you know, you've been like a good girl. Right. Your whole life. Yeah. Um, and he already knows. Yeah. He already knows.

Tessah 39:26

He already knows you're mad at him about that one thing.

Courtney 39:28

Yeah, he already knows. Yeah, like he already knows you sinned last Tuesday.

Tessah 39:32

Yeah, just talk to him.

Courtney 39:33

I love uh uh He knows that you said that cuss word yesterday.

unknown 39:36

Yeah.

Tessah 39:38

Oh man, I always butcher her last name. It's Melissa though. It's the girl we heard at um she speaks that you said you thought she ate books. Um Oh no, I didn't.

Courtney 39:49

That wasn't me that said that.

Tessah 39:51

It was the other friend.

Courtney 39:52

It was another friend.

Tessah 39:54

Anyway, she doesn't like it.

Courtney 39:55

I don't think her name is Melissa.

Tessah 39:57

Yeah, it is.

Courtney 39:58

Okay.

Tessah 39:58

I'm almost 100% sure.

Courtney 40:01

It's Megan.

Tessah 40:02

Is it Megan? No. Oh my gosh, you're right. You're right. It's Megan Fate.

Courtney 40:05

Marshman.

Tessah 40:06

You're right. See?

Courtney 40:07

I'm not pregnant though. So your brain's pruning itself.

Tessah 40:12

It is.

Courtney 40:13

It's and it's mine pruned itself a while ago. And maybe I'm getting some new fruit. Some new synaptic clefts are firing in there.

Tessah 40:22

It's so funny. You got some more, many more new neurons than I have going. I don't know even what happened.

Courtney 40:27

No, man, you just can have a baby.

unknown 40:28

Yeah.

Tessah 40:29

What happened? All the blood flows go into the baby, not my brain. Um, but yeah, Megan Golly almost called her Mullissing. Megan Fate Marshman, she uh talked about like in her book Relax that just came out. We have a copy of it. I've been slowly reading it. But she like the whole book, like the whole start of it is just like talk to God. Like just talk to him about it. He already knows. Yeah, just literally like I love how she's gonna be able to do it.

Courtney 40:51

There's been so much freedom in that for me, you know. And like I didn't I didn't grow up that way. Like I I grew up in a church, um, like a little country church that was in like old school Baptist, you know, and I will never forget the first time I raised my hand when I was singing and worshiping with the Lord. I had to be like, Huh, there were there there was this break, you know, like this piece of me, like it was like a like a zip tie, and like it went boom, and my hand went up, and I was like, wow, that's what that feels like.

Tessah 41:19

Yeah, you know, that's what that feels like. Yeah, it's so good.

Courtney 41:24

Unabridged worship, that's the place, that's where you start.

Tessah 41:29

Yes, yeah, that's good. I love that. I I totally agree. That's so good. Well, I've loved this episode. Um Me too.

Courtney 41:37

I'm so glad to be back. I'm so happy you're sorry that I coughed.

Tessah 41:40

Don't ever get sick again. You're gonna be.

Courtney 41:42

I will do everything I can to never be sick.

Tessah 41:45

Um if so, we'll just have to put PPE on and I'll come to your house and record with you and hope that you're not the kind of sick where you can't talk or you're throwing up. Um, man. I was like, nothing nothing is worse when you feel that.

Courtney 42:00

Well, and then Merritt kept crawling all over me and he's really skinny, so he's got like these elbows and these knees.

Tessah 42:05

And when you already feel achy, son, can you not crawl on me?

Courtney 42:09

But I want to. Can you sit next to me? No, I want to sit on you. Of course. That's how they are.

Final Thoughts And How To Share

Tessah 42:17

Well, guys, thank you so much for being with us for this episode. Um, and if you enjoy this, please send it to a friend, share it with a friend, um, feel free to share it on your social media pages. Let us know that you're listening. You can follow us at Table of Grace on Instagram or the Table of Grace podcast on Facebook. And we will see you guys next Tuesday. Have a great week.