Let's Talk Trust Issues

Trust issues don’t just affect dating or friendships. They can quietly shape how we pray, how we read Scripture, how we handle conflict, and whether we let anyone truly know us. 

We’re sitting down for an honest, practical conversation about where distrust comes from, why control can feel like safety, and how those patterns can spill from our relationships with people into our relationship with God.

Courtney brings her perspective as an EMDR-trained therapist, and we unpack why defining “trust” matters before you can heal it. We talk about the wound behind the wall, the early “touchstone” moments that form beliefs like “I’m not safe” or “people always disappoint,” and how a loud nervous system can keep scanning for danger even when you want to move forward. 

We also share why learning the character of God is not a churchy cliché, but a real foundation for rebuilding faith when your past has trained you to brace for impact.

If you’ve ever thought, “I don’t trust people” or “I’m not sure I trust God,” press play and come sit with us. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more women can find these faith-filled conversations.

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Transcript

Welcome To Table Of Grace

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to the Table of Grace podcast, where every woman has a seat, every story matters, and Jesus is always at the center. We're here to create space for real conversations and faith-filled stories that help you grow in your walk with Jesus. So grab your favorite cup of coffee and pull up a chair, because at his table, there's always a seat for you.

A New Ministry Announcement

Tessah 0:30

Hi guys, welcome back to the Table of Grace podcast. We are back in studio. Do not ask me how long it took me to set up all of our mics and all of the technical difficulties. Yeah, apparently uh the enemy did not want us to record here. We are here we are, though. We made it through. Um, I have a very exciting uh thing to share. So we are so excited to announce that the Table of Grace is turning into its own ministry. And yes, so exciting, and obviously its own platform, and this chapter really has is gonna let us grow in new ways while still obviously holding super deep appreciation for our roots in Central Women and our beginnings there. So you will obviously still hear us supporting Central Women events and church happenings and all the things, so be be sure to keep up. We will be sharing about some of the things that are gonna be happening at Central Baptist. But we can't wait to share this new journey, new ministry with you guys, and at the same time keeping our connections with our community, with our church still so strong. And I am still here co-hosting Tessa Lupke, and I'm with my co-host, Courtney Newberry.

Courtney 1:45

Hello, happy to be here.

Tessah 1:47

Yes, we're super pumped to be here. Um, I am just so excited to um be kind of starting on this new journey. Where's it gonna take us? I don't know. I'm super excited about it. Me too. Um, and I think it's gonna be really good. So we have a really cool episode ahead. Um, we really sat here and had like a literally hour-long conversation. Sure did.

Courtney 2:09

Tessa picked a really complicated topic. So how this works is like Tessa picks the topic and then I talk.

unknown 2:14

Yeah.

Courtney 2:15

Um we just talk. And um Tessa, Tessa went all in on this one.

Tessah 2:21

A little too deep. Um, not saying that you can't ever go too deep. I

Why Trust Issues Hit Hard

Tessah 2:25

feel like it was one of those things where we really had to like there's this broad topic, we had to narrow it down, really, really, really narrow it down. Um, and so we kind of landed on trust issues. Um if you say you don't, you are unaware. Right. Yeah, you're not self-aware. Um, but uh we actually both went to the um Jenny Allen um event at Central Paragold last week. And yes, fight your lie, it was so good. Um, and I feel like I was a little inspired from that. Actually, a lot inspired. And I think um this I feel like this conversation, we had already planned to have it, but I feel like that even ignited my excitement to have the conversation about it. Um, because I think a lot of us in general are living and walking in lives that we don't even know that we believe. Yep. Um, would love to get Jenny Allen on the podcast. She is one of my people on my wish list, so maybe that might happen. That would be cool. Um, but all that to say, we're gonna talk about trust issues today.

Courtney 3:28

Trust issues. Yeah. What do you when you hear trust issues, what's let's do some free association, what's the first thing you think of?

Tessah 3:34

Oh, I think of like the trustful exercise.

Courtney 3:37

Oh, I hate those.

Tessah 3:38

Oh my gosh. Yeah, aren't those scary?

Courtney 3:39

Yeah, yeah. Hate's a really strong word, and I totally mean it. But I also have control issues.

Tessah 3:44

Oh, yeah. Me too.

Courtney 3:46

I just wonder what the relationship is there.

Tessah 3:49

A lot. I feel like we are a lot of our, and we talked about this prior too, a lot of our trust issues come from things that have happened in our horizontal relationships

When Hurt Gets Projected Onto God

Tessah 4:00

that we end up associating with God.

Courtney 4:02

Yeah, we take our hurt and project it onto God like He did it.

Tessah 4:05

Yes. And so like I think that so many women and so many people are walking in this, these like this misplaced trust, or like even like this misplaced trust issues, right? Like we wounds. Yes, yes, like very real, very serious wounds. Um, where whether you have been hurt by someone or a situation or a circumstance, um, that like you don't trust people and you don't trust God.

Courtney 4:32

Like and and you just don't you can't you don't even trust yourself, maybe like yeah, well, and uh you know, like you and I have talked before about how that um you know Lisa Turkers talks about how the life in between the two gardens, you know, um and that if we didn't experience hurt and hardship um as humans, then would we flee will we would we run to God? Would we would we seek him out? Would we or would we just continue to keep relying on ourselves like hey I got this, you know? Right. Um and so I do think that yes, we all have hurt and we all have wounds, but I think that we have a responsibility as Christians to to understand our hurt and understand our wound, understand the impact of it and decide if we're gonna plant our roots and stay there, yeah, or if we're gonna allow it to grow and grow in a way that God can do something really cool with it.

Tessah 5:22

Yeah, that's so good. No, I think that's I think that's really good. Um much easier said than done. I'm not minimizing by any means. Like so, yeah, so much I feel like that's everything. I'll I will say something, I'm like, yeah, I I need to do this too. I need to practice this too. And I even like talking to having this conversation, trying to go back to the root. I feel like there's so many situations in my life where I can go back to the root of trust issues, whether that's relationally or in friendships or with God even, you know, and I think um uh it just it's kind of crazy to like look back and like kind of see, okay, well, where when did I stop trusting people? And I think at the end of the day, at the at like and when I come to my own conclusion of like looking back at my life, a lot of times I had these God expectations for humans that expectations they can never meet. Like we are all gonna be we're all gonna fail at some point.

Courtney 6:19

Absolutely. But I think that sometimes I do that because I like to have control. And so if I have this expectation that won't hurt me, yeah, and I can try to will it into existence, then I can mitigate any hurt that may come from that, you know. Um, like I'm so I'm an EMDR trained therapist, and one of the things that really just like resonated with me in this conversation we had is you said your root, you know, so like we call that like the touchstone. That's called a touchstone. Um and it you identify it as the major event that shapes your belief system for something. And so I don't know if Jenny Allen meant to do that, but there's a ton of overlain EMDR, which is like a trauma therapy, and what she talks about. And I love it when counseling and psychology just like meet head on with like the god of the universe and it lines up, and I'm like, see.

Tessah 7:12

He knows what he's talking about. Yeah. He knew it. Yeah, he already knew it before it was ever like ED, what is it, EMDR? Is that right? Yes, was ever invented. Like even like he knew that this is like how things, like how our psychology, how we're created, because he created us. Um, but yeah, no, I th I totally agree with that. I think there's so much, it's really cool because I feel like we are in a generation where psychology and science and all these things are starting to even more so like just confirm him. Confirm scripture, and you're like, yeah, yep.

Courtney 7:40

Hold every thought captive.

Tessah 7:41

Yeah, yep. Oh, well, look, scripture, I said that. Um, and so I think it's really cool. So um I would even say, Courtney, I know you talk, you have a lot of conversations um all day, every day, and you also um you know have had a lot of conversations when it comes to trust and trust issues and even like your own experiences too, right?

Courtney 8:02

Sure. Um just because we sit on the other chair doesn't mean that it's easy to use the skills and we still miss things. We're just they're pursuing and they struggle too.

Tessah 8:11

Yeah, I absolutely know. I think that's so true. And I would just I think first question when we're talking about trust issues is what what would you say to someone who is having a conversation with you and they're just like

Trust Versus Control And Obedience

Tessah 8:25

struggling with trusting God and trusting people? Like what is the first thing to navigate in that conversation?

Courtney 8:33

I think we have to and I I I don't know if I said this earlier, but we have to understand what trust looks like too, because I think that sometimes we confuse trust with obedience and control. But trust isn't actually about that's not really trust, that's just someone doing what you told them to do. Um I can say, hey, I'm gonna trust you to carry out this A, B, and C. But if you carry out A, B, and C, there's a trust in it, but really I asked you, or you know, like your boss tells you to do that thing. And so I think that you have to understand what someone's concept is of trust and what broken trust may look like. So we're kind of circling back like to that root touched on piece, like what's that mean to you? Because everyone's experience is different, you know? Um, and I think that in those conversations you'll uncover a wound. Yeah, there's a wound, whether it's uh started small and it got big or it was a really big wound, or someone in our life who was super influential hurt us, um, or maybe someone in our life who was supposed to take care of us, maybe maybe didn't.

Tessah 9:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's I think there's so many things that a lot of people are sitting with or have experienced or walked through where they're like, or maybe they don't they haven't even sat down with themselves long enough to look back and see what that is. But I feel like there's so many I hear all the time, which I'm someone that says it, I'm like, I have trusted use.

Courtney 9:54

Um You do say that right. And and I don't be like, I don't, but I do.

Tessah 9:58

Right, yeah. Because it's I'm in denial of my yeah, it comes down to control issues, right? Like, okay, I can't control what you're gonna do. I I can't control what you're gonna do with my vulnerability or my transparent or my relationship or my position or my um or like in or even like what you're gonna do in relationship to me. Like I can't control that.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Right.

Tessah 10:18

And if you do something that's out of my control, or you do something that breaks trust or breaks um, you know, boundaries or something like that, like it that does build up barriers. And a lot of times I think the what we struggle with just as humans in general, is this struggle that we have in hor our horizontal relationships that ultimately do affect our vertical relationship with God.

Courtney 10:46

Well, I think we attribute characteristics of people to God. And he's not like he's not made after us. We're made we're made after him. And I think that sometimes just from like, hey, I can call you on the phone and I have you know tangible access to you. Yeah, that when we don't spend time and you talk about this a lot, like knowing the character of God, then it convolutes our ability to recognize that hey, like he is trustworthy and he is good. And he knew me before I was born in my mother's womb, and he could tell you right now how many hairs I have on my head. Like that's how loved. Like I love my kid, and I can tell you where his little freckles are, I can tell you he's got like this little white spot that doesn't have like color on the back of his hair for some reason. I can tell you exactly where that is, I can tell you the first moment that I saw it and I recognized it. We're loved like that.

Tessah 11:42

Yeah, yeah, and that's so good. And I think and we talked a little bit about this, which I think we should definitely go into it, is like secure attachment and the things that you talked through in a lot of things that you do. Um, but also I think knowing like what you mentioned, God's character

Building Trust Like A Muscle

Tessah 12:00

is personally like my own life and things I've walked through. The more that I have my trust in God has not come from like my own conclusions of a humanly thing. Like it's not the mind of Tesla, you know, like it's it's not me.

Courtney 12:14

That's like so glad it's not the mind of Courtney.

Tessah 12:18

I am so excited and like so like da-da-da that I I just have full trust in the Lord. No, it has been like this muscle of faith that I have been able to build through the Holy Spirit and through the power of Jesus and the work he's done. And that has come through reading in scripture, but also just learning, knowing, and trusting the character of God. Like, and I I feel like letting yourself experience it.

Courtney 12:42

Yes. So like when you said, and I didn't mean to interrupt, but but when I you said muscle, like building the muscle. So like I'm obviously not any sort of athlete, and I'm not gonna be.

Tessah 12:53

I know you say you don't like outside when it's odd outside.

Courtney 12:55

I don't like outside that much. Um I'm working on it because you know I am a boy mom, so I'm working on it. Yeah, but I think that if we think about just like from a science perspective, in order to build muscle, we have to tear it down first. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so I think that we have these ideas of who God should be based on our horizontal relationships. And we have to, in order to build that faith muscle, in order to build that trust, we have to be willing to tear that down and then let that heal in a correct way.

Tessah 13:22

Oh, that's so good. Yeah, I love that you brought that up because I think that is so true that when we start to, when you start to learn and study the character of God in scripture, but you also allow yourself to experience it, like you mentioned, and walk alongside him and allow him to walk alongside you and come alongside you in in your everyday life, everyday moment, you have to unlearn these things. Oh, yeah, wrong like all the time. I feel like I'm like always like, oh Lord, I thought this, and I'm very humbled.

Courtney 13:53

I really hate uh being wrong. Um but I think that some of the most amazing experiences in my life have been on the other side of being wrong.

Tessah 14:02

Oh yeah, for sure. And yeah, and also I'm very humbled at the end of the at the end of that situation or circumstance or season or whatever. Um but I think learning God's character has helped me learn to trust him and learn to also know that he cannot go against his character. He cannot go against who he is, he cannot right, he's not gonna change. And he's also not going to like he's he's good and he's holy and he's just and he's merciful and he's loving and all these different things that we can be, certain things, certain characters we can be. There are also certain characters we can't be. But I think once we b learn those things and believe them to be true, like at our core, like this core truth, that we can start to trust him, and it does help us not only in trusting people in that sense, but also just loving people, you know, like loving people regardless of I know you're gonna disappoint me at some point in our relationship, and that's okay.

Courtney 15:00

You know, like yeah I I st I we can talk and sometimes the best relationships, um, friendships, like hallmark moments in our marriages, like that comes from a little a little moment where you come back together and there's a reconciliation conversation, or how do we learn someone if we're not willing to say, Hey, that kind of hurt? Yeah. You can have friendships like they're like social friendships, right? Social friendships, yeah, yes. That's what I was thinking. I think that there's an intimacy that can happen in friendships. Yes. And I think for the intimacy to happen, it requires obviously both people to be vulnerable. Um and those of us who have maybe trust issues or struggle with control, that's like a dirty word.

Tessah 15:40

Yeah.

Courtney 15:41

You know, like don't you cuss at me. Like, don't say that V word to me. Um, but that's really where those things are built. And like, you know, like I can think back to like a conversation I had, you know, a few months ago and I was really hurt. Um, and I was able to, and I don't do this well, but I had to practice it, have that conversation, you know, and was just met with like that was never my intention. I care about you, you know. And so, like, if I would have written that script in my head and not had that conversation, it would have looked completely different.

Tessah 16:14

Yep. Yeah. Well, oh, okay, so I another question because I think it's good for us to kind of get to like a little bit of the root. Yeah, I feel like we talked about this a little bit already, but like what do you think especially in like your experience as someone who works and walks through this with a lot of has walked through this in what you do, where does a lot of the root of trust issues uh would you say come from?

Courtney 16:43

Oh, I think that you know, sometimes we usually experience it really early um in childhood, whether it be through like our friendships or our relationships with our parents or um and maybe it can be something that was totally like out of I don't trust life because I may have lost someone um or it disappointed me. And I think that when you know, like I think about some of my trust issues, or they're modeled. They can be modeled, like I need to protect myself this way because people say that I should, you know. Um and so I think that it can come from a various places to answer that question. Yeah. Um me personally, uh, I think that it's a little bit of experience. Um, I think there's probably like some some social learning stuff in it, you know. Yeah. Um my mom's like pretty guarded, you know, like she'll listen to this and she'll be like, yeah, I am. Um and she and that's okay because that's who she is and that's how God made her. Um and so I I have always kind of I started out my life trying to be really guarded. Um didn't stay that way about some things. Um I do. I think that it's gonna be personal to everyone and it's gonna be specific to everyone. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer of like, oh, there it is, I found it. But I think that if we understand the theme or we understand the wound of what it is, we can look back at it and then compare that to who God is and what scripture says about who God is, yeah, and realize that maybe we expected some things of him that weren't necessarily his character. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's what we do, like so. We live life, right? I do this, I live life, I experience it, and then I want to predict what's gonna happen.

Tessah 18:23

Yeah.

Courtney 18:24

Because it gives my nervous system a sense of safety, right? If I know what's coming, if I know what's around the corner, right? Um, and then some of us have a lot of really hard things that happen and our nervous systems get turned up louder.

Tessah 18:37

Yeah.

Courtney 18:37

And so they look for more danger. And it we have to learn to teach ourselves that that God is not the fire alarm and he actually resets it. And um, when we were talking earlier, you said something that was really interesting about your studies and about when you spend your quiet time and kind of looking back, you said it's helped me to get better with it, and I said to heal it. Like the anxious attachment stuff that we were talking about earlier. Yeah. If you could say like kind of a little bit about what I was what you were talking about, I think that would be super helpful for people to understand it.

Tessah 19:09

Yeah, for

Quiet Time That Regulates Your Day

Tessah 19:10

sure. Um, I'm trying to remember because we had like an hour full-on like blunt conversation before we recorded this podcast. So I'm gonna have to start like I'm gonna start uh uh planning for okay, like debrief with Courtney one hour, then record podcast. Um that's probably how it's gonna go, and I'm totally cool with that. Um, but I was talking to Courtney and I was like, I felt super convicted to just wake up earlier and make sure I'm on track with the story that the conversation we had, but like wake up earlier with um and just like do my quiet time because like I feel like when I if I don't do that, like I'm just thrown into the chaos of like everything else that's pulling at me that day. Um I gotta get him first. Yes, yes, and so like I have to I have to spend time with the Lord first in order to it's like literally like regulating my nervous system, like seriously, like waking up, having like just a moment with my like you know, mood lighting and my little lamp on.

Courtney 20:03

And your creator.

Tessah 20:04

Yeah, right. And so like, yeah, and so it's so good. And so just being able to sit there and and and just sit and read God's word, journal, pray, and have those moments with him. It is it's and not perform in those moments, correct. Like just be. Yeah, just be me, yeah.

Courtney 20:22

And if I'm not good, I need to tell him I'm not good. Yeah, he already knows it.

Tessah 20:26

Right, yeah.

Courtney 20:26

Why hide from him? Exactly. Yeah, just tell him I'm not okay. Yeah, and I'm only gonna get okay with you today.

Tessah 20:33

Yeah.

Courtney 20:33

And that's the only way I'm getting okay. Yep. I don't want to do today. Have those conversations with him. He already knows.

Tessah 20:40

Yes, being so honest. Yeah, I think that's and I struggled so much, I think, too, like within the first year, I don't know, with motherhood. Like, you know, like that. Yeah, I I feel like I have so many friends in that season right now, it's like newborn. I'm like, it gets better, it gets better. Like you're constantly encouraging them because like it does get better, like every month it changes. You have different challenges, but like it does get better because you just are learning and you're becoming more of a mom. Like, you just you're just we've never been a mom, yeah. You are one, right? Exactly. It's new day for you and your kid. Yeah. Um, first day ever doing this thing. And so I feel like I struggled so much with like, okay, I need to have like this perfect quiet time like I did before I had a baby, which is like just not real life. Um, and I had a just a great mentor just challenge me to be like, just invite God into those moments of chaos. You know, invite God into the moment where the baby's crying, you're trying to rock him to sleep, like invite him into these moments because he's already he's already there, he just wants to be a part of it, you know. Like he wants us to secure attachment, look

Secure Attachment And Home Base

Tessah 21:40

back. Yes, yes, look back. Yeah, share that story. You're sharing the I'm like, I need to share the video somehow.

Courtney 21:45

I do I wish we could, I wish I'm gonna vi paint this visual for y'all. Yes. Um, I talk a lot about attachment um as a trauma therapist, which associates so much to trust issues. Absolutely, absolutely. Um, well, I mean, so like Ericsson's first stage of development is trust versus. Is mistrust and you were gonna resolve that in one of two ways. You were gonna learn to trust people or you're gonna have distrust of people. Um, and so it like again we see the psychology matching up with um but with attachment, um, there are different types of attachment, and I don't think we won't go into all of them because it can get a lot. But the one that we were talking about was the secure attachment, and I talked about when I teach this, a lot of times I'll talk about my little boy, and I have a video where he's in his diaper and we um our washing machine had broke. Um, and so we had to get a new washing machine. So we had this massive box in our living room, yeah. And he crawls because he's not walking yet, he crawls and he stops and he looks back at me like, is she still there?

Tessah 22:45

Mm-hmm.

Courtney 22:45

Is she does she see me? Yeah. Am I good?

Tessah 22:47

Yeah.

Courtney 22:48

Am I safe? Can I do this?

Tessah 22:49

Right, yeah.

Courtney 22:50

And then he crawls further into the box and it's it's darker in the box, you know, because it's not like facing us, it's like at a 90-degree angle from where I'm sitting in the with the camera lens. And then he comes back out and he peeks around the corner, like, hey mom, are you still there? And then he decides it's too much, and right back to me he comes. Yeah. And so that is that is secure attachment. I I want him to be able to walk out and not be afraid of the world. Yeah. But I need him to know I'm home base and he can come back to me and that I'm safe. Um, and that I'm gonna take care of him. I want him to trust me. And so I think that like there's like this spiritual metaphor with that that God wants us to live in this world because we're called to make disciples. So if we don't live in this world, how are we gonna do that?

Tessah 23:33

Yeah.

Courtney 23:34

But he also wants us to turn and look back to him. Yeah, check in with him. Yeah. Have I gone too far? Am I walking where you want me to walk? Have I strayed? Have I moved? Because he hasn't.

Tessah 23:44

Right. Yeah, no, I love that. And I love the video because you showed me right before we started this. Like, oh, it's so cute. Oh my gosh. Um, but I think that's that's so true. And I think uh that's such a great picture of really even like who like how we are to God. Like we are he wants us to be like children, like have this childlike faith, you know, with him in that sense, and to be able to trust him like that, like, okay, am I supposed to go in the box? You know, like am I am I wandering the right direction? Am I and to be that connected to him, but also that trusting of him.

Courtney 24:21

And know that I can come back. Yeah. Like I, you know, hey, ooh, this was darker than I thought it was, Mom. Yeah, and then he comes back to me. Yeah. Um, I can't see you, and I need to see you. He didn't, he lost his ability to have visual of me. And so he comes back. And I think that that's how how God wants he wants us talking to him every day. He wants us starting our mornings with him, he wants a communication line all day. He wants our good and our bad and our ugly. And I think that we sometimes exist in this world where we think that we have to perform and mask, and so we hide that from him, but the only person who's really losing is us.

Tessah 25:00

Yeah.

Courtney 25:01

That's so true. Because just like, you know, like I talked about like with my with my friend and having like that hard conversation, our friendship got even stronger there. And our relationship with God, I mean, like if that happens on like a a human fleshly level, imagine in like a spiritual level what happens there.

Tessah 25:19

Yeah, yeah, it's so good. And I think uh there's uh so much that we can learn when we about there's so much we can learn about when we look straight on at trust issues that we have, or even like specific people that we have issues trusting, or you know, just like these different situations and circumstances, like you mentioned, like there's various ways that like the root of trust and mistrust.

Courtney 25:43

Everybody's story is different and unique to them.

Tessah 25:45

Right. I think it's so interesting though to know that like really the resolution of those things can be found in learning more about who God is to us and how we and and fixing that vertical and looking at that vertical relationship with him first, because if we can get that right, and not even like get it right, like God's already made it right. Yeah, make align it and abide to him and like realign with who he is and like back in. Yes, check back in. Turn our shoulder, yes, go back to home base, you know, and actually figure out, okay, God, who are you? Who are you to me? Who do who what is scriptures? Who does like what does your word say about you? What does it testify to who you are? How does it testify to who you are? And how can I take that and proclaim it and accept it as truth? Mm-hmm. And and even like walking through that process, because again, like it's a muscle and faith is a muscle that you build up over time. And God will allow things to happen in your life, He's sovereign over these things to help you even build that muscle to use it for his good. Yeah, yeah.

Courtney 26:52

Even when you don't understand it.

Tessah 26:54

A hundred percent. And um, I think that I mean, what would you say that like that's kind of like the first step in especially as a Christian and a believer? Like, if I'm sitting here and I'm struggling with, gosh, I feel like I can't build relationships, I can't have friendships, and I can't and this is extreme, but I feel like there are so many people I've even encountered, or even like in my own seasons of life where I'm like, does anyone know me? Does anyone and if no one if I feel like no one knows me, then how can I trust someone with this information, or how can I be vulnerable, or how can we trace it?

Courtney 27:25

Well, and if we don't allow people to know us, then how are we gonna be connected? Exactly. And so I had that's funny that you say this. I had this probably probably like a year ago, I had this revelation. I was like, I am really good at knowing other people, but I am really terrible at letting other people know me. Um, and because you know, I remember I've been in denial that I had trust issues to begin with. This is like a new thing for me. And so, like the other day, um, we were at church and I went down front just to pray. Like, I just needed some time with him. Yeah. Um, and uh one of our encouragers came up, and at first I was like, I'm praying by myself. Like, I got this. And then it was like the Holy Spirit was like, remember, you're letting people show you that you matter.

Tessah 28:08

Yeah.

Courtney 28:09

And I was like, Okay. Fine. Fine, Lord. Yeah, you know, and and it was it was good, it was a good practice because we have to have teams in this world, and whether it's your marriage or your friendship or it's at work, we have to be able to let that be reciprocal, not just I will take care of you, let me hide me.

Tessah 28:30

Right, yeah, no, I think that's so true. I just hide myself from God too. Yeah, I just say it. Yes, yes, and so and that that was kind of like what I was getting to too, is like when we um even in the even if you're in that situation where you're like, I feel whether you're like holding back because you are afraid of people, you know, you know, not having like keeping your trust and like failing you and disappointing you, and so you're like, okay, well, I'm just gonna hold back. It I feel like that does a disservice to what God can do in those relationships and like what God can do through your vulnerability, your transparency, your transparency in your story. But like what I I always go back to when I start having those thoughts, or like, you know, okay, well, I don't know if I should share this, or like I feel like God's telling me to, but I don't I don't know. And I just go back to okay, I am fully known by the God that created me. Absolutely.

Courtney 29:22

And like in your head, yes.

Tessah 29:24

And so, like knowing and trusting in that, knowing his character, knowing, but also knowing what he thinks of me, who like what I believe to be true about who he says that I am to him, can also give us the freedom to walk through these things, trust issues. I mean, there's so many different things that we walk through, but specifically this, like we can walk through and go, okay, even in the midst of these things that I'm struggling with, even in the midst of um the hurt that might happen if I am vulnerable and share my testimony, or if I'm vulnerable and share what I'm struggling with. That even in that God can use that, you know, and that we can it's almost like being um I'm trying to I'm trying to put language that you might be better at doing this to me, but like almost like being above the um and above might not be the right word, but just like not worrying about um perception. Perception, not worrying about like, okay, well, this might be thought of me, or like I or I might put myself in a situation to you know vulnerable, to be vulnerable, and like that might that might be hard for someone that has trust issues, right? Um like if I

Forgiveness Boundaries And Connection

Tessah 30:40

start with God.

Courtney 30:40

Yes. You know, like look in it, like as we're having like this conversation, like I'm thinking our last episode was on like forgiveness. And like so to to circle back into yes, like forgiveness and trust do play into each other. Um, and you can choose to forgive someone and then still choose not to reconcile and choose not to be vulnerable with them. Right, yeah. But those are those people that have hurt you really big. Those are you know, hey, if a friend forgot to call you or maybe they didn't fill you in on something, or maybe like you felt left out of something. Like those those hurts are the ones that those those those are space where we could forgive. Yeah, you know, those are a space where we don't have to lose trust in someone. Yeah, um, we have to give people the opportunity to know us and to do better. Yeah, the the the forgiveness piece comes with that. The reconciliation piece is the optional piece, yeah. Where you don't have to choose to trust that person. Right. But if you find yourself in a position where you don't trust anyone, um probably probably feeling a little lonely right now and totally like misunderstood.

Tessah 31:52

Yeah.

Courtney 31:52

Um, and I know that that can be like super scary. Yeah. So start with the Lord.

Tessah 31:57

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that's starting with the safest place. Yeah, starting with God. I think that's and practice it there. Yes. Yep. Yep. I think that's yeah, that is so good and so true. I think um, yeah. I mean, I feel like it's a mic, that's a mic drop. We don't want to drop these mics though, because we just so carefully set this up. But I just got this one. I mean, yeah, please don't drop that. Mine is, however, my podcast mice is podcat podcast mic can't talk. Um has been she's been through it with me. I mean, I I need a new one probably. But um, she still works, so we're gonna we're gonna keep her for a long time as long as she keeps working. Um, I I think this conversation has been so good. Um, and I think again, there's so many different directions we get to hear and talk probably for like three hours on secure attachment and insecure attachment. Exactly. And we might do an episode on about that. If I can get my all my thoughts in order, I might get you to map that one out. You might have a better idea than me. Um I think it'd be fun.

Courtney 32:58

I think it'd be fun. We can talk to like about Bible characters and like what their attachment styles were, but I'm a huge dork.

Tessah 33:05

So I love it. Dork out. Um that's so fun. But um,

Follow Us And Send Questions

Tessah 33:10

if you guys um have any questions, I'm actually excited to also share that we have our own um our own accounts now. So you can follow us at table of grace on Instagram and on Facebook. Um I'm pretty sure the Facebook one will be the Table of Grace podcast. And Instagram is just at Table of Grace. So feel free to go. Yes, we want to hear from you guys. Yes, we want to hear from you guys. Feel free to follow us and leave a review or feel free to like just ask questions. You're like, uh, I have a question about this. Feel free to message us. Um, I would we would love to respond to you and answer all the questions. And if the question's over my head, I'm going to forward it to Courtney. Or I'm gonna get back to Tessa.

Courtney 33:55

Or we're gonna go to the Lord in prayer.

Tessah 33:57

Yeah, yeah, or someone that's you know smarter than both of us. Um, and yeah, so we are just so thankful for you guys and super excited for this new chapter of the Have Podcast. Yes, I'm super excited, it's gonna be so good.

Courtney 34:10

And topics too. Like if you have things that like you want to talk about or you want to hear us talk about, I mean, I would love to hear it.

Tessah 34:19

Yes, give us all the suggestions. Um, if you see us out and about in Jones World somewhere, um feel free to come up to us and I'm not out and about that often. I mean, maybe me either, but I I mean you might run into me at Target occasionally.

Courtney 34:32

Yeah. Yeah. Uh I'm, you know, you're like I'm kind of a homebody. Yeah. That's okay though. That's okay.

Tessah 34:39

Yeah, maybe I can get you out and about more. Yeah. Get you in Target. Yeah, it's my trust this year. I don't trust myself in Target. Me either. I probably shouldn't be going. Um, that's a whole different podcast episode. But um I am just excited to do this with you, Courtney. I think it's gonna be so good. And good things are coming. Good things are coming, and we will see you guys on the next episode.