The Table of Grace Podcast

What to Do When It’s Not Well with Your Soul (Part 2)

• Central Women • Season 1 • Episode 4

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If you’re navigating sorrow, heaviness, or a season that won’t end, pull up a chair. Tessah, Traci & Lori talk through steps you can take when it's not well with your soul. You’ll leave with language for your lament, anchors for your heart, and steps you can actually practice this week. If this conversation helps you or someone you love, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review telling us which practice you’re trying first. 

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@thegreatinvitationlife

Haley:

Welcome to the Table of Grace podcast, where every woman has a seat, every story matters, and Jesus is always at the center. We're here to create space for real conversations and faith-built stories that help you grow in your walk with Jesus. So grab your favorite cup of coffee and pull up a chair, because at his table, there's always a seat for you.

Tessah:

Guys, welcome back to the Table of Race Podcast. I'm Tessilepki here with my co-host Tracy Smith, and we are back for part two with Laura McDaniel. Last week we went over just some really deep, heavy topics, and we thought we need to really dive even deeper into these topics and really talk about applications. So if you haven't listened to last week's episode, definitely go back and listen to that right now.

Traci:

Yeah, like right, yeah, like pause this and like go back and listen. Don't hang up on that, whatever you have to do and go back to last week to be ready for this week.

Tessah:

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Do that and then come back and listen to that one. Um, but really we last week's episode was titled What to Do When It's Not Well With Your Soul. And so this week we're gonna kind of navigate what that looks like in application. Like what are some practical steps we can take when we are walking through suffering, sorrow, heaviness, and um what what that looks like to actually just live in it and sit with it and work through it and um all the things. So Lori's gonna really walk us through that. So thank you for being back in the studio with us, technically, I guess. Um thank you for being with us, Lori.

Traci:

Thanks so much. But listen, I I want to go back with you to last week for for a few moments because I have sat with this all week long and I've been waiting until we did this today. So okay, let's just jump into deep end. Let's do it. So even in thinking about it, even that whole phrase of of when it's not well with my soul, I've just that every day I've thought about it. What does that mean? When what when we're talking about our own heart and our own life and our relationship with the Lord, when I say it is not well with my soul, share with women what what does that mean? What does that look like?

Lori:

So I'm gonna do what I don't always do on a podcast. I'm actually gonna turn it back to you for a second. And I'm going to ask you when you hear that phrase, you almost even have to think like, what am I thinking when I say it is well with my soul? But let's just go with your phrase. What does it mean it isn't well with my soul? What does it mean when you hear it?

Traci:

When I hear it. Um it means what I thought I knew of God, what I thought I knew of what my life looked like when I am walking with the Lord and when I'm in his word. Um all the expectations that I have about being a follower of Jesus have somehow crumbled in front of me. That's what it looks like in my heart when it's not well with my soul.

Lori:

Yeah, and I think there would be a lot of people who would identify you with you in the words that you are that you are saying. And the reality is I think there are times in our life when we say it isn't well with our soul, that everything that we have known about ourselves, all the rhythms in our life that we have put into place maybe become dismantled, and therefore, even who we thought we are, we're not even sure who that is anymore. Exactly. Um I think there are times too that we the things that we were even thinking about God and how we were even relating to God, like the scaffolding of that has been knocked out.

Traci:

Yes.

Lori:

But I believe, and it's been my personal experience, that when we hit that place in our lives and we come to God and we're like, God, I don't even know who I am. God, everything that I know, have known is gone. Matter of fact, I'm even like find my heart even questioning you. I think in some sense that God, his response is somewhat like, Good. Now let's sit down and have a conversation. So think about Job and his story. So the beginning of Job, like he loses absolutely everything. Yeah, he's not even privy to the conversation that has taken place in the spiritual realm between God and Satan. He has no clue while all of this is happening. But with we were to fast forward to the end of Job. And after the four chapters that begin with God saying, Hey Job, dress like a man and let me ask you some questions, because Job has been pouring out all of these things, even from the bitterness of his soul, sometimes even declaring that, hey, I still believe that my redeemer lives, but yet my soul is bitter, right? Yes. When he comes to the end and and God questions him in four chapters worth, Job's response is look, I have heard of you, but now I see you. Like, in other words, there were things that I knew about you, like almost informationally, but now I know you experientially. Like there is so much more than I have ever known because I have now experienced you up close and personal in the deepest, hardest place of my life, where Job questioned everything about him, like his own life. Like, why was I even born? Does my life even matter? And he's even questioning God too. But that is his conclusion at the end of Job that I thought I knew these things. Now I have fully experienced them in a deeper way.

Tessah:

Hmm, that's good. Yeah, I love that. Um, and really just I love that you had that question, Tracy, too, because I think that's a very valid question of you know, what is the definition of that? And I do feel like even in your definition, that definition looks different for so many different people in different seasons, um, and and what that feels like and looks like to for your soul not to just just not be well, you like to just feel unsettled and without rest.

Traci:

Um, and um I just feel like I have I I see the this group of women that are standing behind me in my head and I think they would all say, It is not well with my soul, and all of their circumstances look different, and all of them would be asking this same question. Okay, this is where I am. How do I walk through this well? Or how do I crawl through this well, or whatever, however, they're handling it, what how can I find my way back to trusting the Lord? That sounds so heavy to say that.

Lori:

No, it sounds it sounds to me like um in Psalms, in some sense, when the psalmist is writing, he's in a pit, right? And he's crying out to God. And let me just say this like as you're listening to this podcast, we are not attempting to pull anybody down into the pit. Like we are empathizing, walking alongside those who find themselves in a pit. But what I hear you saying, Tracy, is that like there are times in our life because whether we recognize it or not, we don't live in the Garden of Eden. We live in a broken, sinful world. We're lost in grief and despair, and things can happen, right? But in the pit, when we find ourselves there, the psalmist cried out to God. And like, notice that is the only thing that the psalmist did was he waited. Well, two, he waited patiently, and we can't outweigh God, wait God, like he said in the last episode, and he cried out to God, yeah, giving ourselves again to permission to articulate God, it isn't well with my soul. God, this is hard, God, this is harsh. Um, but then it says that God did this, like he reached down, he drew me out of the mud, out of the pit, he put my feet up on solid rock, he put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise, so that many will see and fear and put their trust in him. And in some sense, that passage just summarized everything that we talked about in the last episode in some way. Like those were just gentle guiding truths as we're about to go a little bit different direction with this, that we give ourselves permission to articulate it, to be honest with God about it. And I think when we step into that honesty, we actually find an intimacy with God we haven't experienced, that we begin to recognize that actually hard can be holy because he meets us in some of those deepest places in our soul. Um, but also with the frame of mind that this in this life, like there will be a time that I will die and I will be in heaven with the Lord because my faith is in Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Lori:

But in this life is the only time that I will have the opportunity to commune with God from a place of pain, to worship Him from the pit.

Traci:

I cannot quit thinking about that. Part of me says, Yay. Exactly, yay. But then another part of me thinks, okay, we we need to learn how to do this well because I want to be able, even in that pit, to offer my praise to the Lord. And I've after last week I went back, I've read through Job, and and the things that have struck me about that is all those things that happened in Job's life. So there was no etch a sketch that made all that go away. It still was his reality. Right. But yet he was able to trust God and move forward.

Tessah:

Yeah.

Lori:

Right. And I know, like in this episode, like what we're we're we're gonna we're gonna dive into, or like I think the way you phrased it, Tessa, was what are some practical steps that we can take, right? Um, and I I want us to get there um on those practical steps, but I think before we can, and I'm even sure steps are the right way to even talk about this. Like I think it's more like we're in a storm and we're riding the waves and they're crashing down on us and we're attempting to keep from drowning. And that's what it I think feels a little bit more like whenever it isn't well with my soul. And so what I want us to do before we like talk about, you know, those things like how do we navigate the storms of our life? Um, let's make sure that we've got some anchors in place. Um, our family, we were at um in Florida this summer, and I remember looking out, I don't know, maybe 200 feet off the shore, and I could see this circular thing. It literally, I thought it's somebody is out there, like their head is bobbing up and down. Like, do we need to send someone to go rescue them? And I kept watching it over and over and over and again until it dawned on me, that is a buoy that is out there, and it didn't matter how massive the waves were or how strong the undertow was. That buoy was deeply anchored so that whatever storm tossed it about, it wasn't going anywhere, but it didn't mean it wasn't going to be tossed about. Okay, I want us to be able to put some anchors in place because the storms will happen. We will be tossed. We the waves will feel like they're crashing up on us. So let's make sure that we are anchored into some incredibly solid things as we move forward and what how we navigate it moving forward. And some of these may sound obvious. The first one may not be as obvious to some people, but I think that it is this the first anchor that I think that we need to tether ourselves to is that we live in the tension of the already and the not yet.

Tessah:

Ladies, our first event of the fall is here, and it's time to get out your calendars, pull open Google Calendar, get out a pen, whichever way you like to remind yourself, write it on your fridge. Our first flourish night is happening Monday, October 27th, and we could not be more excited. We are going to be welcoming Tara Dew, author of Overflowing Joy and Overflowing Peace, as our guest speaker for the evening. And registration is open now. So hop over to centralbaptist.com slash women so you can register and save your seat with us. We cannot wait to see you there for just a night of fellowship and community and listening to Tara just bring a word from God. We cannot wait to see you ladies there. The link will also be in the show notes. So if you are interested in signing up and registering, you can go to the show notes and sign up there as well. And again, yes, we hope to see you there.

Lori:

Okay, let me say it again. We live in the tension of already and not yet. And the reality is this um concept really is more like some people call it a kingdom theology, others think of it as uh eschatology, as if we're talking about the end times. But then there are others who also like bring more like a Christology into it that yes, there is the already and the not yet tension that exists, but it exists because of Jesus Christ. And they bring in the soterology, like the Holy Spirit helps me navigate this. So let me kind of break that down of what this already and not yet is, because it is a place, I think, where our soul doesn't deny the ache that exists within us, but we anchor into the truth that exists. The already and not yet really is a theological tension, and we're not gonna pull back all the layers, but let me just give you some scriptural examples and then we'll move forward how it I think it impacts this place of where it doesn't feel well with our soul. Um, but like you know, um, you know, some scriptures like in Ephesians where it talks about that we have already been raised with Christ, right? But yet in First Corinthians 15, it says that we have not yet been raised with Christ. Okay, so there is an already, and there is a not yet. So in some sense, it also says that we have been adopted in scripture, but then there's a place in scripture just a few verses down in Romans where it says that we have not yet been adopted. So there is the already that everything that we have, every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places is ours, but not yet have we experienced every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Okay, so how that plays out in this it isn't well with my soul, is I think I would sum it up this way. And I don't mean this to sound like a riddle at all, but I think that we can actually say, it is not well with my soul, but it is already well with my soul.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Lori:

Break that down a little bit. So we're living in the in bit in the in-between, the already and the not yet. We're we're living in the dash, right? Yeah. Um, and there are things that what we when we hit the hard places that our soul finds it difficult to navigate, it's because we are living in this already and not yet tension. So, like in Psalms it says, My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Well, the already, he he is my portion forever. But the not yet, my heart and my flesh are going to fail. Or if we even go to Lamentations, chapter three, which you know, there's a verse 21 to 20, like we quote all the time, his mercies are new every morning, right? His love never ceases. But before that is the not yet, like it is the I'm walking in darkness, I'm crying out for help. He shuts out my prayer, he drew his bow and he pierced my heart. Like I am filled with bitterness, I'm broken, I remember my affliction, I remember them, and my soul is downcast. And then the writer says this, he says, Yet I will call this to mine, which in our last episode we talked about soliloquy, where David's like, like I said to my soul, why are you downcast? And then he preaches to himself, hoping God, it's almost what's happening here. This I call the mine, and therefore I have hope. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his compassions never fail. They are new every morning. I say to myself, basically, the Lord is my portion, therefore I will wait in him. So, in some sense, we can say, It is not well with my soul. I am in grief, I'm experiencing loss, I am in pain, I need healing, I've been hurt. It is not well with my soul yet. I'm trusting in the already finished work of Christ, therefore, it is well with my soul. So that's why we go back to the concept that we talked about in the first episode that we can say, hey, this is the only time in life that I will commune with God from a place of pain, I will identify with Christ in his suffering, that I can worship from a place of sorrow because in the already that exists, because of Jesus Christ, when I am there, those things will not exist. Yeah, the pain is in the not yet, the grief is in the not yet, the loss is in the not yet, the sins, the consequences of our sin, they're in the not yet, but already I have full pardon for my sin. I hope that makes sense. So, like in if we think through even Job, worshiping God when it's not well with my soul, worshiping God in the not yet. Again, Job, we referenced him at the beginning, like he absolutely lost everything. And yet his words were also the Lord gives and takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. You feel the tension? Yeah, though he slay me, I will trust in him. He even says this, I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God. Like in some sense, he's saying, I am holding, I'm navigating all of this in the not yet, but I already know my redeemer lives. By putting my trust in the already that exists.

Tessah:

That's good. So good. No, I I love that, and I love the I feel like I need to go back and reread Job. I'm like, I'm that's gonna be my that's gonna be my read for the week. Um and I feel like there's even in the midst of this podcast, I feel like that's such a good story in relation to what we're talking about is that living kind of in between the not yet and the already. Um I think that's that's so good.

Lori:

You know, the the like the phrase that we say, it is well with my soul. Likely many of your listeners know the story of Horatios Bafford, but let's just like summarize it in some sense because he was the he's the one who pinned the words of it is not, or sorry, he pinned the words of it is well with my soul. But he was a man who was an entrepreneur, he was incredibly wealthy, and he and his wife, Anna, they lost absolutely everything in the Chicago fire back in the day. All his possessions burned up, everything he has known gone. And so he puts his wife and his four daughters on a ship to go to England really to just find some reprieve. And he was going to eventually like meet up with them. But on the way, that ship sank. And his four daughters died. And he received a telegram from his wife that simply just said, Saved alone. And so he gets on a ship to go and meet up with his wife to bring her back to Chicago. And the captain of the ship that he is on, when they passed the location that the ship sank and his four daughters died, the captain made it known to him. And it is in that place that it the story is told that he pinned the words, it is well with my soul. And I believe that man, the verses in this song are so rich. I wish we could like unpack all of them, but like let's just hang on one of the phrases in there. He says, Let's talking about the storm that we go through. He says, When sorrow like sea billows roll. Yes. Whatever my lot, you have taught me to say, it is well, it is well with my soul. But take notice, he pins this saying, it is well with my soul, having endured this experience of everything that disturbs our soul, loss and death. Like he's almost like Joe. He lost absolutely everything that he has known. And you know, people ask you like, um, if you could sit down and have coffee with someone who is dead, like who would it be? Like, I have a long list, but I would love to sit down with Horatio and his wife, and I would I long to ask them, so reveal to me how God taught you to say that it is well with your soul because you walked through an unbearable storm, everything's crashing around you, and I don't think that he would say, Well, I just positive talked myself into it, you know, or um and and in the script, and it his verse doesn't say he forced me, it's like he taught me, and I want to know like how did you learn that?

Traci:

There have been times about the last the last verse of that when he then pins in the Lord, paste the day when my face shall be sight. I mean, but this idea that even in that place, he's looking ahead to the what is to come.

Lori:

He's looking forward to the already, he's trusting in the already finished work of Jesus Christ. Therefore, he can say in the midst of such turmoil that there's no answer to why it happened, but he can still say it is well with my soul. I think I think if we hold both of those phrases, it is well with my soul, like when things are amazing and really great in our life, the reality is as good as they are, Jesus is still better. And when things are falling apart in our life, if they don't make sense whatsoever, Jesus is still better. Yeah. So I think one of the anchors has to be um the thinking of already and not yet, and therefore we will be able to say it isn't well with my soul, but because I'm trusting in Jesus Christ, it is well with my soul.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Tessah:

So that's good. So good. Um yeah, I feel like just keep going, Lori. I feel like there's so much to I'm like, I I'm just like a I'm a I'm a student listening. I'm so good. This is so good. Walk us through, okay. What what so after you feel like you get maybe the listeners are like, okay, like I'm I'm starting to kind of you know put this together, um, or I'm really relating to what she's saying. What's you know, where do you go from here? Like, where do you keep moving? What direction do you keep going?

Lori:

Yeah, well, uh there's probably several anchors to put in place. So the already not yet, um I think if I were sitting down with Horatio and Anna, I'm inferring here completely how they would answer, but I have to believe that one of their answers would be how God taught him that it is well with his soul, had to be through his word. And it had to be like even in knowing his word. And, you know, we brought out in the last episode, like we were really walking with people, identifying with them, empathizing with them. And I even made this statement like I made it personally, like there are times when I have been walking through the deepest depths, and I'm a lover of God's word, a teacher of God's word. But sometimes the last thing I want to hear is, well, the Bible says, right? Um, and the reason that we often that we don't want to hear this is we really are craving, we're longing for someone to be with us as we're navigating it. We're not wanting a sermon, we're wanting someone to witness our pain, we're wanting someone to understand our grief, not not slice it up, dissect it, and then hand it back to us with some kind of spiritual covering or platitude. We just want to know that somebody gets where we're at. Yes. But the reality is this is the one person who can truly be with me in the depths of everything that I am walking through is God Himself. And one of the ways that I walk this is simply by be still being in His Word, by calling to mind His Word. Um, the hard part of that is I think that there are times that we hit, I know I have personally before that I hit a time where everything that I had done in my spiritual walk and practice, I could no longer do. I didn't have the physical ability, I didn't have the mental capacity, I didn't even have the probably, I hate to say this, but the emotional stability, like nothing made sense. And I could not sit down and study God's word like the student that I had been before, where I would just take God's word and I would dissect it and exegete it, and I would gain all this information. I was at a place where I don't know that I could handle any more biblical knowledge and information. I needed to be with God. And I didn't know it at the time, but I needed to be with God in such a way that there wasn't more information, but rather there was this place of transformation that was beginning to play take place in my soul. But I still needed to be anchored in his word because in Hebrews it says that um that his word is living and it is active and it's sharper than a double-edged sword, right? And it's able to pierce through to the division of soul and spirit. Like if we look at that verse and we just like summarize it, basically saying, Hey, look, God's word is living and it's active, which means it is effective for all things, and it is productive, like it is producing things within us. And when God is aiming at producing something in us, he's really aiming at us being transformed, of Christ being formed in us, and in some sense, that's where again the already and not yet come into play. Like, I'm already a new creation, I already know this, but yet I'm not completely a new creation. There are still old parts of Lori McDaniel that exist. His I used to read this verse too, where it's like it says that it pierces to the vision of soul and spirit. I almost used to read it as if it's dividing the soul and spirit, but when you look Up that phrase, what it literally means, it literally means it is meeting us at the finest point where our soul and our spirit meet up. So it's it's it's piercing through to where these things meet up, is what that literally means. So when God takes his double-edged sword that has two entry points to it, right? And he's cutting through to the division of or the meeting up of our soul and spirit. He is the only one that can be that precise. And the word of God is the only instrument that can be that precise, that can literally cut through to the place of our innermost thoughts that we're not gonna say to everyone, to those emotions that feel like turmoil within us, to even hidden motives. What's that? And we're not gonna show to everyone. No, we won't. Yeah, and even hidden motives that we may not even be aware of ourselves, is his word is the only instrument that can do such a place of cutting through, of exposing our innermost soul. And that's why I say that maybe I can't open up God's word to sit down and study whatever Greek and Hebrew word means right now. Doesn't mean I won't again. Right. But yet I still have to be anchored in his word because that is the most surgical instrument for the innermost being of my soul and everything I'm thinking and carrying and holding. And God is the only one who can do that. That's so good.

Tessah:

Um yeah, I I feel like I need to, I'm gonna have to listen back to this and take my own notes. Um, because I do I do think um I think we mentioned it last week, but like if even in the midst of a storm, whether you're just coming out of one, you're in one, or you're about to be in one, you're like I think this is so applicable to everyone in any season, um, in in knowing these anchors and knowing that God is like God's word is such an anchor. And I I think that's also the importance of being around people who also love the Lord and love his word. Because when you're in a season of like, I can't even, you know, like, or like I don't want to, or um, this is hard. Um, I think also having your sisters around you to encourage you and to speak even speak scripture over your life is so impactful.

Traci:

And they love us too, which is why it's so important to have that community. This is reminding me of years ago a Bethmore Bible study we did. I think you and I did it together actually. And she was talking about um when Jesus met Mary and Martha and uh he had come too late and Martha fell at his feet. And I remember Bethmore said there are seasons in our life when we are not students sitting at a desk taking in scripture and learning we are clinging bare knuckled to what we have known. And I think that that really fits in with what you're saying as well. Knowing who God is and trusting that in spite of what is sitting in front of us in that moment.

Lori:

Yeah, and if you think back to that passage um when Jesus does show up on the scene, right? And Martha comes out and she said, if you had been here. Only you had been here. Like if only you had like shown up, in other words, this would not have happened.

Traci:

Yeah, yeah.

Lori:

You know what her next words are? But even so. Yes, yeah, like there's almost the not yet and the already. Even though she doesn't know everything about Christ, even though her faith is not yet fully formed, she just has your experiences of what she does know, right? Um, but it is if you had been here, this wouldn't have happened. Yes, but even so, yeah, in other words, um, it is not well with my soul, Jesus. But even so, you're here, it is well with my soul.

Traci:

Yeah. Even so, yeah. So that's a good one.

Lori:

Yeah, yeah. So I think I think those are a couple of anchors that um that we need to have in place. And yeah, I mean, absolutely. And I want to move us to talk about some. Oh, I'm again, let's just call them practical next steps, but just realizing like we're being tossed about here. So we're just trying to figure out how to get our feet underneath us while it feels like we're standing on marbles, right? And so, like, how do we how do we navigate this? And so, what I want to do is I want to give us a few things um to consider, but I wanna I wanna say this about practical next steps. Is practical next steps are only as helpful as they are practiced. Okay, like I can give you a practical next step and you can go do a one-off kind of thing, but unless it's practiced, it isn't actually going to be helpful in our life. So I had surgery on my right arm not too long ago and my elbow, my wrist, and my hand. And the physical therapist would give me things to practice. But if I didn't implement those practices at home, no matter how painful they may feel, then I was not actually going to come full circle to healing. And so I'm gonna give us some practices. Um, they may to some sound new. As I'm saying them, I'm not at all saying do away with other practices that are implemented into your life. What these are is these are practices that I began to implement from a place where I couldn't function the way I had normally functioned. Um, and I needed to operate with God um still, again, my anchor being the already not yet. Again, my anchor being God's word. So the first practice that I want to for us to discuss is um what is what is called breath prayer. Now I realize when I say that word or that phrase, automatically thoughts could go. Oh, wait, wait, wait, what? Like, is that a mystical kind of thing? Is wait, is is that Hindu? Is that Buddhist? Is that yoga? Um and so forth. And so, but let me let me like give you what this is and what this looks like. I believe, as I've done my own scriptural study on it, and even kind of developed my own theology of breath prayer, as you will, that we can look and we can see that breath prayer actually orients our life to God. So if we go back to the very beginning in Genesis, that God formed mankind, right? And then what did he do? He breathed the breath of life into him. So, in some sense, just breath and even taking notice of our breath is orienting ourselves to the creator who has made us in his image. But then also there's a time in scripture when uh Jesus is talking to his disciples, and it says the strangest thing in John chapter 20 that Jesus breathed on them and he said, Receive the Holy Spirit. Now, listen, theologians are going to debate that passage. They're gonna debate whether or not that was an actual filling of the Holy Spirit, or like a partial filling of the Holy Spirit, or if it was a symbolic filling of the Holy Spirit. That's not the debate for this right now, but what we do know is this is Jesus at the very least used breath as a symbol of new life, of the Holy Spirit coming into us. So I see breath prayer as orienting our life to God. I think it also breath is God's design for our well-being. Like when we take a deep breath, like I even do this with my grandkids, when things get all everybody's emotions are all escalated, like everybody stop. Like, okay, take a deep breath, hold it in your mouth. Okay, everybody, blow it out as hard as you can, right? And all I'm asking them to do is, you know what? Let's calm down. Yeah, yeah. Let's steady our minds, let's regulate our emotions, let's bring our heart cadence down, you know, and like biologically, what this does is it slows our heart, it lowers our blood pressure, it regulates our system, it lowers stress hormones, it goes in that, but we're not in fight or flight and panic mode anymore. All right. Even Psalm says, be still and know that I am God. For me, I have to slow down to take notice in order to do that. I think breath prayer is also a very anchoring place or recognizing place of God's presence. In Acts, it says that He Himself gives life and breath to everything. And so what you might be, okay, wait, what does this look like? Am I just sitting around taking a deep breath? Like if I'm in the doctor's office panic, they're asking me to do box breathing or something like that. Is that what this is? Here's how I like to practice this is I like to take scripture itself. That's why I said you got to be anchored in the word. And breath prayer becomes for me that orienting to God, where I take small scripture and on the inhale I say part, and on the exhale I say part. So it may be like this from Psalm 18 in an inhale, you rescue me exhale because you delight in me. Or Psalm 23 on the inhale, you lead me, God, you refresh my soul on the exhale. On the inhale, Proverbs 3, I trust you on the exhale with all my heart. John 3 30, on the inhale, you must increase, and on the exhale, I must decrease. Like I I could give you so many scriptures, but that's just an example that I actually employ not just every day, but moments throughout my day continually.

Tessah:

I love that so much more than it actually the as you bring this up, actually brings me back to a message like my college minister talked about. Um, and it was actually a sermon where he was like listen at his like son's home church or something, and the pastor um talked about a very similar um breath type of like um breath work type uh breath prayer. I was trying to think of the word for breath prayer. Um and I actually still do this because he introduced that practice to me, and it's actually breathing in and going, Jesus is with me, and breathing out and going out and I'm with him.

Haley:

Yeah.

Tessah:

Um and it's like just this practice of like like what you meant, like literally what you're saying. It just like made I just made the connection um of I've actually heard this before in a different way. But um, no, I love this because I literally practiced it. I didn't I didn't really have language to put to it. I just I just know it works really well for me. Yeah, who knows? Who knows actually practiced to it? I'm happy people are learning in a better way than I did, but no, I I think I've even practiced this in my own in like in my own life of like when I'm feeling in those whether it's in a season or if it's just in a moment or a situation where I'm just like heavy and overwhelmed and and overstimulated. I mean, I have a nine month older home that's like freaking easily and my dog's like barking and like he's crying and like someone's calling me and then like my in-laws want to FaceTime. It's just like all the things, you know. Um, and so I think like having those moments of like doing these things, like even breathing in scripture um and like exhaling out. I mean, that's I it's I've lived it and it's so helpful. So I'm excited. I need to share this list with everyone that you have because I feel like it's so helpful.

Traci:

Um and anchors, I do this, I've never called it this, but I do this at night when I go when I lay down to go to sleep. That's good. And I just I settle myself, and it's uh I want the last thing coming out of my mouth to be to the Lord.

Lori:

It's good to go. The thing is, is like using this practice in those moments where we would say maybe it's not well with our soul. Like, listen, the first time I hit a place of suffering, like that moment, that day, I wanted it to end. Like, I'm done. Like, could this just be over? But we know often these like just continue, and so our whole system, our body, our mind, lesson learned. Yeah, we're completely dysregulated. And so, what this does is it literally the the body that God designed, the breath that he breathed into us, we are anchoring ourselves in his word, and we are praying his word back to him in a cadence of the breath that he put within us, and so I just believe it orients us back to God, yeah. So that's one practice. Yep. Um, a second practice that I would say would be um prayer of attachment and prayer of detachment. And this has everything to do with our identity. So when things are falling apart, we question, like we talked about at the beginning, who am I? And we question, whoa, wait, God, who are you? And so all of these things going through our mind, whether they are current because of current circumstances, or they are things that we have just held as patterns in our life and ways of thinking about who we are, what this prayer is, is it a place of releasing false identities? It is a place of even releasing, I would say, idols of shame, of control. But then what it is is we're also then recentering, attaching to who our core identity is in. And so what this looks like, um, well, even in First Corinthians, it says this. It says that do you not know that you are the temple of God's like God's spirit dwells in you, that your body is the temple of God, right? So this prayer of detachment, this is what this part would look like that I might pray, I might even write. And the list just keeps growing and getting longer. God, at my core, I am not a success and I am not a failure. At my core, I am not wealthy and I am not poor. At my core, Tessa, I am not a good mom and I am not a bad mom. Like at my core, I'm not a good employee, I'm not a bad employee. At my core, I'm not married, I'm not single, I'm not a pastor's wife, I'm not a ministry leader, I'm not wealthy, I'm not poor. At my core, I am not in control. And I would even go so far to say, at my core, I am not the pain I'm experiencing. I am not the loss that I am going through. Like, I am detaching from these false things. I'm detaching from lies. I'm detaching from self-reliance, I'm detaching even from isolation. And then what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pray prayers of attachment. I'm going to attach to truth. I'm going to attach to his sovereignty and his grace. I'm going to attach to his divine presence. And so that might look like a follow-up like this. God, at the core of who I am, I am yours. At my core, I didn't choose you. You chose me. At my core, I am crucified with Christ. At my core, I am a new creation. At my core, I don't have a righteousness of my own, but a righteousness that comes from you. And so we begin to pray all of these things. At my core, I came into the world of sin, but I also received full pardon from my sin. At my core, I'm the apple of God's eye. At my core, I am holy, beloved, and chosen. Like these are here's the and this is why this comes back to attaching to um God's word and realizing the already and the not yet. Like I'm fighting this already and not yet, the things I'm attaching to, right? But I need to attach detach from. And his word, everything that I'm attaching to, isn't based on something I make up in my head that I'm wanting God to be or Christ to be. I am attaching to who Christ is and the identity that he is, like I have in him based on the word of God. Hmm. That's so good.

Tessah:

I would even ask Lori, do you think sometimes too like in alignment with the detachment part? It also kind of coexists with denying ourselves and um like just kind of saying like even like I'm I like my flesh desires this, but I'm going to like deny myself, or you know, like it's I feel like there's always which in God's goodness, he doesn't thankfully tell us all the bad things about us at one time, or like doesn't unravel the things that he wants to really sanctify in us all at once. It's this journey and this process. And I feel like even it's what you're sharing, like this detachment, it's also like a process too. Like it you're, you know, these you can in application do these things in in suffering and in these situations that are hard or in a season that's really heavy um walking through these things. But I also feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, but also it's almost like a part of the journey to like slowly, um, even if you you know you're detaching from these things and attaching to God's truth, but it's almost like a process too of like I'm saying this, I might even not even truly at my core believe it to be true because I'm working through that, or like this is really hard for me to accept as truth, but I'm gonna believe it to be true because God, I believe that God's word is true. Um, I don't know, that's some of my thoughts out loud, but I do think like um even like in the life I've lived, um I feel like it's definitely also just like this unraveling process of like me giving God this lie that I believe in and trading that in for truth. And then okay, uh I've walked through that and God's like, okay, here's something else. I need you, okay, you traded in that lie. Here's another lie that you're believing that you need to really we need to walk through this one. So um I don't know if I feel like if that's a lived experience, but it feels like it's shedding.

Traci:

Yeah. We're just shedding the things that we've held not just as as our own as truth. I say our own really it is our own truth, I guess. We're shedding these truths that we have uh trusted in more than we have trusted in the truth of who God is and who he is in us. We become confident and comfortable in what we believe to be our ability and how we define our journey, but we have to shed those things away and trust fully in him.

Lori:

Yeah, that's good. So let me give a third practice, and we're just gonna fly through this one. Um this podcast is already really, really long.

Tessah:

So I feel like it's gone by so fast though at the same time.

Lori:

So um the the third one that I would say a practice to put in place is um practicing the presence of God. And that expression practicing the presence of God actually comes from a book um written by Brother Lawrence, um, who is just well known from the past. Um, but in practicing that that presence, it's almost even also taking the posture of Samuel, who said, Speak, Lord, your servant is listening. Which means then I'm acknowledging I'm coming into a place of even contemplation with God. Um, there's times that we do reflection, which is you know, thinking with God, where his truth is giving us insight and perspective. There's times of meditation where we're dwelling on God. I would even say breath prayer is that we're letting his word sink deeply into our hearts. But contemplation is simply being with God, where we're resting in his presence beyond words. I like to say um even that we're practicing responding to God's omnipresence. Like that itself is powerful, and it's something that we know, but we don't slow down to take notice of. So it's not that I um I don't make God present with me, right? Because I'm just sitting down to think about him. I don't make him present. He is present. So why am I not thinking about him? And so practicing his presence really becomes a discipline that for me, it like started more like in the mornings and my quiet times, but now it has just grown in my heart and my soul and my mind, where God has just been doing transforming work where I take notice throughout the day. So it may even take notice to things around me. So, like even right now, I'm sitting in front of a window and I can see the lake, the trees in front of me, like taking notice of God's presence, like he's not in the tree, he isn't the lake, but the heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaim his handiwork. Like just because of that, I am mindful of his omnipresence. And so the like I could give more, those are three practices that I know are probably gonna feel um new. Um, but I would say this, they're only practical as they're put into practice, and none of them are necessarily meant to replace someone's devotional or their eight-week Bible study or 20 other spiritual practices, you know, that we could sit here and mention. It's just like, hey, when you're walking through deep waters, um, here are some things to to help you as you're in the storm. Um Isaiah 43.2 says, when you pass through the waters, I will be with you. So cracking is his presence is taking notice of the omnipresence of God.

Traci:

So good.

Lori:

Yeah, so good.

Traci:

Hey, thank you.

Lori:

Yes, yes, thank you. Well, it's an honor to be with you guys. I know that um you guys, your theme is abide, which I absolutely love. Um and one of my favorite passage or verses in that passage where it talks about remaining in his love is that apart from him I can do nothing. Which even means in the places where it isn't well with my soul, I can't do nothing apart. I can't do anything apart from him. Which leaves me again to be able to say, when it's not well with my soul, because I am the branch attached to the vine and his father is the gardener, it is well with my soul.

Tessah:

Yeah, that's so good. I know there's I hope, I hope, my hope and prayer in this is that there are women listening um and that they found some hope in this podcast episode. Um, whether they're they've lived through a season of just like hard um or suffering or sorrow, or they're walking through one, or even they're about to walk into one, and this is ministering, and this podcast is able to minister to them in preparation for that. So um I really hope and pray that this encouraged you.

Traci:

Such great advice about how when we have someone we love who is walking through something hard, how we can be an encouragement to them. Yeah, this has been really good.

Tessah:

So good. Thank you so much, Lori. I feel like I could definitely um we could have like 1500 podcast episodes, just conversations we could have.

Lori:

Well, thank you guys. And um, I think it's awesome what you guys are doing and how you're leading and walking with your women in all the seasons of their life. So may God bless that. Thank you. Love you, friend. Love you. Love you too.